Creative Studio III: Please Reconsider Healer Design Before Evercold

[ForsakenRoe]

DT furthered the demand on healing for high end content. Endwalker did the same thing. You would know that if you actually participated in anything outside of Normal raid and roulettes

The demand goes up, yes, but so too does our number of answers to mechanics, which counteracts the demand increase completely. Yes, we have to heal a lot more because of the 6 back to back weapons in M11S, but we now have Philosophia and Seraphism and Sun Sign and... ok the WHM move is kinda mid by comparison. It's like when SE used 'multi hit attack' a lot more often in EW, it wasn't really super-noticeable how much 'more healing' we had to do, because at the same time we got SGE with Panhaima, and WHM got Lilybell.

The assessment that 'the demand on healing has increased' only really holds true in the most literal of senses, I think. That is, when the raidwides hit us, the number is larger compared to a previous expansion. But our HP pool is bigger, and the amount we restore is bigger, too, so it evens out


Besides, saying 'high end content' over and over doesn't help the case. Healers should feel engaging regardless of the level of content they're being played in, surely? Every Job should. So, be that via more interesting Damage rotations, or via having to press Healing GCDs more frequently to break up how often Glare/Holy (or other Job's versions) is pressed, doesn't matter how SE achieves it, but they ought to do it. Saying 'well you don't do the X% of the content in the game where your kit actually gets used to its fullest so shut up', is a pretty damning assessment of the state of the game, from a 'how much value do you actually get from your subscription' perspective. Can I pay X% of the regular subscription price, and access just the X% where Healers are actually 'engaging', then?

[RaionKansen]

snipped for character limit

Healers and tanks can't really engage with their roles in causal content. I'm all for them changing this and bringing back big wall-to-wall pulls or giving bosses raid-wides that kill players if they're at least not at full HP, but I feel like people would complain.

I will continue to invalidate people's criticism on the premise that they don't actually engage with the game's content because I do not believe that they will ever provide feedback that is in the best interest of the game aside from just saying "i want the jobs to feel fun". They do not have the experience or information to apply critical thinking to their critique on the battle systems. They're basically just spectators.

They're still a paying customer. They're entitled to their opinion and its CS3's job to interpret the "I want the jobs to feel fun" feedback, but I'm not obligated to validate them. I don't work for SE

Also, I think paying a sub just to do MSQ and roulettes is a weird waste of money unless you knock it all out in like a month or just use the free returning player game time. I get my money's worth out of the game. I at least try to tackle every piece of content the game has to offer and there's still a lot I want to go back to and complete.

[Wildheaven182]

Elitist disregard of constructive criticism, check. Filling out my toxic positivity bingo card quick for the supposedly best community in gaming.

Savage raiders dont care about the game as long as they get their fill. They selfishly sacrifice any other part of the game if it means it will benefit their own favorite content. They dont care about the experience of the large majority of the playerbase, theyre just filthy casual plebs right? They cant give feedback that is good for the game because they're not as "good" as them?

All they care about is their ego, so I'll say this.
Savage raiding has nothing to do with skill. It's nothing more than studying for a test and then taking it with a group of people you also trust to have studied it. Ive done it, and guess what? Savage is easy, so easy it's boring.

So yes, casual content healer experience is probably the most important feedback that you can possibly get.

[ty_taurus]

Healers and tanks can't really engage with their roles in causal content. I'm all for them changing this and bringing back big wall-to-wall pulls or giving bosses raid-wides that kill players if they're at least not at full HP, but I feel like people would complain.

I will continue to invalidate people's criticism on the premise that they don't actually engage with the game's content because I do not believe that they will ever provide feedback that is in the best interest of the game aside from just saying "i want the jobs to feel fun". They do not have the experience or information to apply critical thinking to their critique on the battle systems. They're basically just spectators.

They're still a paying customer. They're entitled to their opinion and its CS3's job to interpret the "I want the jobs to feel fun" feedback, but I'm not obligated to validate them. I don't work for SE

Also, I think paying a sub just to do MSQ and roulettes is a weird waste of money unless you knock it all out in like a month or just use the free returning player game time. I get my money's worth out of the game. I at least try to tackle every piece of content the game has to offer and there's still a lot I want to go back to and complete.

So in other words, you're here to kill the vibe because you think you know better than everyone else?

[Supersnow845]

1) Healers and tanks cant fulfill their role in casual content most of the time. As soon as they're absolutely needed it becomes less casual. That would be like if they added semi-tight dps checks to every piece of casual content to give DPS actual meaning since there's rarely ever any punishment for not doing enough damage.
2) All of their healing CDs get used in higher end content
3) Meaningful changes require the combat design to be changed, which is coming next expansion. They could have given every healer 3 more damaging GCDs and it wouldnt have changed anything
4) You don't need a lot of things. There's still plenty of situations where its optimal to use. At least once every trash pack. Also I don't get why we're being racist and insulting Japanese people

DT furthered the demand on healing for high end content. Endwalker did the same thing. You would know that if you actually participated in anything outside of Normal raid and roulettes

Giving one more boring healing CD then absorbing that CD into expectation of healing in savage isn’t meaningful improvement

And I know about savage, I intentionally stopped doing it because I no longer like savage, if we are going around invalidating each others opinions isn’t mine more important because they want to bring me back to savage rather than someone who accepts what they deliver right now

None of the CD’s are even good from a class design perspective. WHM and AST got shields because square didn’t think through the whole “shield healing is always better”, hell AST got SUN SIGN despite NOCTURNAL being the shield sect, was lunar sign trademarked?

Meanwhile the shield healers got pointlessly overpowered regens. SCH’s pain points always included you could overextend yourself then end up in trouble with limited resources. Now you can just blast WHM mode for 20 seconds, it erases half of SCH’s identity with one ability; AND THE ABILITY IS UGLY. Philosophia they were so afraid to lock it off to people who won’t do DPS they made it work on healing CD’s, neither if or physis should exist, you should just have one “pankardia” button

[Sani2341]

Healers and tanks can't really engage with their roles in causal content. I'm all for them changing this and bringing back big wall-to-wall pulls or giving bosses raid-wides that kill players if they're at least not at full HP, but I feel like people would complain.

I'd argue even casual content has tankbuster and adds in some Fights. Even if it's not a 'fail to tank and wipe' Level, it still let's tanks do tank things (well as this game define tank things at least).

They also get to have their job identity in things they actually use in even casual content. Warrior gets to be too angry to die, paladin gets to channel holy themed powers to protect their allies, GNB gets to be three dps in a tank Trenchcoat.

And they do have decently more interesting DPS filler then healers. Granted with the recent addition of all their 'burst now' options, doing that filler perfectly is less important overall, but it's still someth you can do and get better at even in Casual content.

Healers? Not so much. If people really want to, they can cover dungeon damage without a Healer. Yet for the most part the healer jobs themeing and mechanics have been nigh exclusively invested in that healing.

Thing the closest to having Something to their identity that is not just healing is AST with the damage buff cards and the 2m buffs AST and SCH have and are expected to lose in 8.0.

And the worst part is we had stuff on kinda the level tanks had before ShB. SCH having to choose between soil and flare (which despite some parse brained bias was not always 'do the one that does dmg') had to apply and spread DoTs for AoE, etc.
AST had the rather elaborate card Minigame on the side thanks to royalroad. And could play with buff and debuff timers.
(Didn't play WHM back then, but sadly it was the odd one out back then from what I remember hearing)

[RaionKansen]

So in other words, you're here to kill the vibe because you think you know better than everyone else?

Not everyone else. Just you and a few others.

[RaionKansen]

Giving one more boring healing CD then absorbing that CD into expectation of healing in savage isn’t meaningful improvement

And I know about savage, I intentionally stopped doing it because I no longer like savage, if we are going around invalidating each others opinions isn’t mine more important because they want to bring me back to savage rather than someone who accepts what they deliver right now

None of the CD’s are even good from a class design perspective. WHM and AST got shields because square didn’t think through the whole “shield healing is always better”, hell AST got SUN SIGN despite NOCTURNAL being the shield sect, was lunar sign trademarked?

Meanwhile the shield healers got pointlessly overpowered regens. SCH’s pain points always included you could overextend yourself then end up in trouble with limited resources. Now you can just blast WHM mode for 20 seconds, it erases half of SCH’s identity with one ability; AND THE ABILITY IS UGLY. Philosophia they were so afraid to lock it off to people who won’t do DPS they made it work on healing CD’s, neither if or physis should exist, you should just have one “pankardia” button

I agree, just adding buttons isn't going to fix why certain people are unhappy with healing. They keep asking for it though. AST already had shields. WHM got shields because they barely contribute to party mitigation and it makes people not want to play with them. They could have just given them damage mitigation instead of shields, but it also helps shore up some potential issues WHM has in Criterion content.

Shield healers didnt get pointless overpowered regens. Seraphism isnt that great since it forces you to GCD heal to benefit from it. I am hoping evolved SCH is a big shift in its design. The skill is ugly too I agree. I don't get why SCH is transforming into an angel. I really wish we could have summoned Titania instead.

Philosophia is nice. I could live without it. SGE's kit is really solid when you manage everything well and they had to give SGE something. Would you have preferred if they just got another damage button instead? Physis II is like one of the only good/defining things about SGE and playing around it is how you stay anywhere remotely on par with SCH healing.

This is why I don't validate people that refuse to do content. You simply don't understand what you're talking about.

[RaionKansen]

Elitist disregard of constructive criticism, check. Filling out my toxic positivity bingo card quick for the supposedly best community in gaming.

Savage raiders dont care about the game as long as they get their fill. They selfishly sacrifice any other part of the game if it means it will benefit their own favorite content. They dont care about the experience of the large majority of the playerbase, theyre just filthy casual plebs right? They cant give feedback that is good for the game because they're not as "good" as them?

All they care about is their ego, so I'll say this.
Savage raiding has nothing to do with skill. It's nothing more than studying for a test and then taking it with a group of people you also trust to have studied it. Ive done it, and guess what? Savage is easy, so easy it's boring.

So yes, casual content healer experience is probably the most important feedback that you can possibly get.

I care about the game a lot. That's kinda why I do everything. Even content that has nothing to do with combat. Giving ignorant people what they want is rarely best for them. CS3 has to consume that information and interpret how it would be best for the game. Its similar to being an audio engineer for live music and receiving criticism from an attendee or like someone going to a hair stylist with vague demands on how they want to look.

Its not about being good or better than others. Doesnt have anything to do with skill either. Anyone can do savage or ultimate. You just have to put the time in and hold yourself accountable for your mistakes.

The casual healer experience is going to be being bored unless CS3 starts putting a lot of damage into casual content. I'm all for it, but I don't think they'll do it because anytime a dungeon causes wipes often people crash out about it.

When it comes to the battle systems and combat design I believe they should prioritize the people that engage with those systems the most, even if its not 51%+ of the playerbase. Its not a small margin of players either. Koji said at fanfest that about 20% of the playerbase does Savage. Thats 1 in 5 and probably closer to 1 in 3 to 1 in 4 if we're only taking about max level characters. That's a lot of players. I would expect the same approach when they look to make big changes to any other facet of the game. Even if its content I don't particularly like, I would rather them listen to the people that love that content if its a notable chunk of the playerbase.

[Supersnow845]

I agree, just adding buttons isn't going to fix why certain people are unhappy with healing. They keep asking for it though. AST already had shields. WHM got shields because they barely contribute to party mitigation and it makes people not want to play with them. They could have just given them damage mitigation instead of shields, but it also helps shore up some potential issues WHM has in Criterion content.

Shield healers didnt get pointless overpowered regens. Seraphism isnt that great since it forces you to GCD heal to benefit from it. I am hoping evolved SCH is a big shift in its design. The skill is ugly too I agree. I don't get why SCH is transforming into an angel. I really wish we could have summoned Titania instead.

Philosophia is nice. I could live without it. SGE's kit is really solid when you manage everything well and they had to give SGE something. Would you have preferred if they just got another damage button instead? Physis II is like one of the only good/defining things about SGE and playing around it is how you stay anywhere remotely on par with SCH healing.

This is why I don't validate people that refuse to do content. You simply don't understand what you're talking about.

You really didn’t understand anything I posted did you

You said “they gave shields to the regen healers, especially WHM to shore up weaknesses in criterion”

WHAT WAS EVEN THE POINT OF THE HEALER SPLIT IF YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM EACH OTHER’s TOY’s TO MAKE THEM FUNCTIONAL

They have no idea what they are doing with healers, I know that the regen healers are weak in savage because of mitigation, but then why even do a split that basically turned them into “good healer and bad healer”. Criterion is literally a joke balance wise with how much it ridiculously biases SGE

You say seraphism isn’t great because it forces you to GCD heal. That would arguably be its downside, but then they also made manifestation and accession instant cast, reduce ET to zero CD and pull a regen out of nowhere. Giving the healer who had a fail state in overextending themselves and healing on the move a WHM god mode with no cast time (AND ON A SHIELD HEALER NO LESS) is just deleting of a weakness for zero upside.

And I didn’t say physis was bad I said physis should have been pankardia but instead they made pankardia an extra regen (again on a SHIELD healer) that could be procced with healing because they were too scared to commit to actual pankardia

I understand perfectly what I’m talking about, your arguments sound like you heard once offhand that “savage healing means no GCD healing” and ran with it because calling seraphism “not that great” is just……