Creative Studio III: Please Reconsider Healer Design Before Evercold

[RaionKansen]

And every time, our concerns about healer design were validated when said content came out. I would love to be proven wrong this time, but our track record proves otherwise. Every time, it's always "wait and see! The content will make it worth it!" And every time it wasn't. Nothing will make boring Glareficoilosis spam fun across all layers of XIV's content be it old, new, casual, hardcore, or anything in between. It is unacceptable design and you will never stop me from continuing to call it out for what it is until either they finally make healing fun at all levels of content regardless of how much healing is or isn't needed, or I fully give up on the game and move on.

What concerns did you have that were validated when Dawntrail came out? Oh wait, you didn't play Dawntrail at all

[ty_taurus]

What concerns did you have that were validated when Dawntrail came out? Oh wait, you didn't play Dawntrail at all

Ah, yes. How much a 60 second OGCD and an AOE DOT that doesn't stack with your single target DOT and also sucks when you could just apply the single target DOT as you move to the next trash pack would've changed EVERYTHING about Sage. You're right. My decade of experience playing the rest of XIV basically just was thrown out the window with Dawntrail, and suddenly spamming Dosis III till my fingernails fall off was going to be SO MUCH FUCKING FUN!

[RaionKansen]

Ah, yes. How much a 60 second OGCD and an AOE DOT that doesn't stack with your single target DOT and also sucks when you could just apply the single target DOT as you move to the next trash pack would've changed EVERYTHING about Sage. You're right. My decade of experience playing the rest of XIV basically just was thrown out the window with Dawntrail, and suddenly spamming Dosis III till my fingernails fall off was going to be SO MUCH FUCKING FUN!

Oh so you're one of the people that weirdly duped themselves into thinking that Eukrasian Dyskrasia would be a separate dot you could stack for basically no reason.
I've played SGE for a few ultimates and I wasn't expecting the aoe dot to stack. It works when it works. You can single target dot the first couple targets in the pack and then aoe dot the last group once the tank stops.

Most jobs never get to use their dedicated aoe job actions optimally for single target dps. Having the second dot wouldn't really change anything. (especially since you mentioned in another thread that you dont want 1>2>3 combos anyways and thats basically the same just spamming 1 and refreshing your dots)

Crashing out about trash pack dps IN DUNGEONS as your entire frame of reference for how you think CS3 has continually fallen short for healer design feels like a joke/ragebait.

What a poor argument. Play BRD or something else maybe

[ty_taurus]

Oh so you're one of the people that weirdly duped themselves into thinking that Eukrasian Dyskrasia would be a separate dot you could stack for basically no reason.
I've played SGE for a few ultimates and I wasn't expecting the aoe dot to stack. It works when it works. You can single target dot the first couple targets in the pack and then aoe dot the last group once the tank stops.

Most jobs never get to use their dedicated aoe job actions optimally for single target dps. Having the second dot wouldn't really change anything. (especially since you mentioned in another thread that you dont want 1>2>3 combos anyways and thats basically the same just spamming 1 and refreshing your dots)

Crashing out about trash pack dps IN DUNGEONS as your entire frame of reference for how you think CS3 has continually fallen short for healer design feels like a joke/ragebait.

What a poor argument. Play BRD or something else maybe

You're being incredibly rude and uncharitable taking the most blunt interpretation of what I'm saying that is humanly possible to a malicious degree. What I need is a healer that is always enjoyable to play. I don't care if it's savage or beating Zenos up in an MSQ battle. I will not tolerate any healer design that is spamming Dosis ad nauseam, whether that's Dosis III a million times, or Dosis > Dosis II > Dosis III rinse and repeat. And honestly, the bar is not as high as it sounds. I said multiple times leading up to Dawntrail that all I'd need to play the expansion was:

1. Eukrasian Dosis' DOT duration is changed to 15 seconds with increased potency and grants an Addersting
2. Phlegma III cooldown is decreased to 20 seconds
3. Psyche cooldown is decreased to 30 or 25 seconds

That's the bare minimum that would've gotten me to play Dawntrail. Just getting to use the existing DPS actions twice as often

[ForsakenRoe]

Oh so you're one of the people that weirdly duped themselves into thinking that Eukrasian Dyskrasia would be a separate dot you could stack for basically no reason.

You might have missed the part where it DID stack with E.Dosis during the Media Tour, and then was changed to not stack, specifically because of feedback before launch from JP players saying 'we are healers why do we need to manage DOTs' or some such. If anything, the ones doing the 'duping' would be SE, when they showed it stacking and then randomly deciding that 'actually it shouldn't stack after all', we were just going off of what we were shown. The 'basically no reason' is actually almost 100% accurate, as the DPS gain of doing so (with potencies shown in the Media Tour) would have been just 40p per 30s (Dosis 360p, E.Dyskrasia 400p total)

Also if the DOT was halved Duration, rather than halved Potency per tick, (ie instead of doing 40p for 30s, doing 90p for 15s with current numbers), it'd actually see way more use in dungeons. And even maybe in specific Raid fights where there's more than one target, like M10S

[ty_taurus]

You might have missed the part where it DID stack with E.Dosis during the Media Tour, and then was changed to not stack, specifically because of feedback before launch from JP players saying 'we are healers why do we need to manage DOTs' or some such. If anything, the ones doing the 'duping' would be SE, when they showed it stacking and then randomly deciding that 'actually it shouldn't stack after all', we were just going off of what we were shown. The 'basically no reason' is actually almost 100% accurate, as the DPS gain of doing so (with potencies shown in the Media Tour) would have been just 40p per 30s (Dosis 360p, E.Dyskrasia 400p total)

Also if the DOT was halved Duration, rather than halved Potency per tick, (ie instead of doing 40p for 30s, doing 90p for 15s with current numbers), it'd actually see way more use in dungeons. And even maybe in specific Raid fights where there's more than one target, like M10S

I didn't dig deep into JP reaction, but from what I saw, the concern seemed to be more on the need to be in melee range for it, but I could be wrong. Frankly, I didn't really like the idea regardless. I don't want Scholar's old identity. I want something that feels appropriate for a sci-fi gundam healer. Fast and bursty

[Supersnow845]

What concerns did you have that were validated when Dawntrail came out? Oh wait, you didn't play Dawntrail at all

Let’s see

1) they still didn’t fix the fact that healers are useless AND boring in casual content
2) all healers got more healing CD’s they (besides WHM) didn’t need and the content doesn’t require. Which stripped their identity further away. Yeah sure let’s give a regen and a WHM mode to the shield healers and shields to the regen healers 1 expansion after denoting a split nobody wanted anyway
3) none of the increased damage options meaningfully changed the job, like AST’s and SCH’s are just insulting, one oGCD after their two minute buff because (and I quote the guide) “players were asking for more complexity in damage options on healers”
4) they overreacted to the one potential bright spot of e dyskrasia being stackable being too hard for Japanese salarymen and it so it doesn’t even have a niche. When you are running you want to e dosis, then when you stop you start dyskrasia, you don’t even need e dyskrasia, it’s only useful when you walk right into an area with multiple mobs and that’s the entire fight like the interlude fights in windrust.

I’m more trying to think of a single way DT DIDNT validate healer concerns from EW (that were actually from ShB)

[RaionKansen]

Let’s see

1) they still didn’t fix the fact that healers are useless AND boring in casual content
2) all healers got more healing CD’s they (besides WHM) didn’t need and the content doesn’t require. Which stripped their identity further away. Yeah sure let’s give a regen and a WHM mode to the shield healers and shields to the regen healers 1 expansion after denoting a split nobody wanted anyway
3) none of the increased damage options meaningfully changed the job, like AST’s and SCH’s are just insulting, one oGCD after their two minute buff because (and I quote the guide) “players were asking for more complexity in damage options on healers”
4) they overreacted to the one potential bright spot of e dyskrasia being stackable being too hard for Japanese salarymen and it so it doesn’t even have a niche. When you are running you want to e dosis, then when you stop you start dyskrasia, you don’t even need e dyskrasia, it’s only useful when you walk right into an area with multiple mobs and that’s the entire fight like the interlude fights in windrust.

I’m more trying to think of a single way DT DIDNT validate healer concerns from EW (that were actually from ShB)

1) Healers and tanks cant fulfill their role in casual content most of the time. As soon as they're absolutely needed it becomes less casual. That would be like if they added semi-tight dps checks to every piece of casual content to give DPS actual meaning since there's rarely ever any punishment for not doing enough damage.
2) All of their healing CDs get used in higher end content
3) Meaningful changes require the combat design to be changed, which is coming next expansion. They could have given every healer 3 more damaging GCDs and it wouldnt have changed anything
4) You don't need a lot of things. There's still plenty of situations where its optimal to use. At least once every trash pack. Also I don't get why we're being racist and insulting Japanese people

DT furthered the demand on healing for high end content. Endwalker did the same thing. You would know that if you actually participated in anything outside of Normal raid and roulettes

[Azurarok]

2 roles of a trinity ceasing to function well outside content that only 20% of the players engage in is great, actually

[Wildheaven182]

It's really easy actually.
Remove vuln stacks outside of savage content. Being 3 strikes youre out is what makes healing irrelevant and boring.
Then you have more freedom to output much more frequent and higher unavoidable damage. More healing to do.
On top of that, give healers a small but interesting and flexible dps kit. Remove the excess ogcd healing button bloat to do so.
Then make them more unique from each other.

The hard part is getting the devs to care. And getting creative unit 3 to be creative.