Creative Studio III: Please Reconsider Healer Design Before Evercold

[Carighan]

Yeah just giving each other everybody's toys is a bit weird. More so because I always thought healers are double-split, WHM+AST vs SCH+SGE as regen vs shield healers and further WHM+SGE vs AST+SCH as output vs utility healers.

But of course they gave WHM the same extra 10% damage reduction AST had, which erodes the utility-spect a little bit. Sure, supposedly for good reason, but that just indicates to me that the numerical balance is off, WHM ought to offset the slightly higher damage intake, and that ought to not kill people regardless (meaning that actually AST offsets their lower output by reducing incoming damage a little bit!).

Of course, I'm also not against everyone having the same shared tool, so long as it is implemented differently. A system vastly underutilized in the current game. For example, right now each healer has a %-DR. It superficially is done differently, but sadly this matters too little:

* WHM's is on a healing-taken-increase CD. This would be interesting design if raw healing was more useful, so I'll let that pass. Separate and global issue kinda. Still, it's a bit of a weird 1-2-strike implementation.
* AST's is on a bubble you can hold. Yet they made it so that the effect isn't dependent on the bubble being held, which utterly trashed this implementation conceptually and made it rubbish.
* SCH's is cast by the pet. If the pet were AT ALL relevant as a design, this'd be great. It isn't, so this isn't great design, rather it's trash design.
* SGE just has a straight up %-DR (multiple in fact but so do other healers, comparing the simple ones here). That's fine, one class gets to have the simple version. The extra HoT is overkill of the usual "Oh I wonder why nobody GCD-heals after we added 6 quintillion oGCD heals and HoTs to everyone, what a conundrum"-type of mistakes first-ever-newbies-from-college class designers make.

There is a hint of good design in there. For four healers, one can have the DR conflict with something they'd want to use separately of the DR but cannot. One has to commit extra time. One is dependend on an external resource. And one just gets it straight up (but either weakest or its compensated in other abilities). The implementations are super bad however.

This is part of the stuff I am excited for EC to just cut. This design is so bad, I don't want them to try iteratively salvage/improve it. MMORPG class design improves from repeated full-reworks and full-reimplementations, kicking the design out of local dead ends and figuring out whether plateaus of design space were truly the top plateau or just a local one.

[Alice_Rivers]

WHM got shields because they barely contribute to party mitigation and it makes people not want to play with them.

Have you done M11S recently? WHM needed a party shield and mits because every other raidwide will one hit kill people without them, in other words the content design invalidates EW WHM. There's nothing I hate more as a WHM than watching people die for no other reason than my kit simply doesn't contain the tools to prevent it, that is bad content design.

I haven't seen anyone asking for more healing buttons, I've seen people asking for more healing and others asking for more dps buttons but the only people I see want more healing buttons have been the developers.

[RaionKansen]

Have you done M11S recently? WHM needed a party shield and mits because every other raidwide will one hit kill people without them, in other words the content design invalidates EW WHM. There's nothing I hate more as a WHM than watching people die for no other reason than my kit simply doesn't contain the tools to prevent it, that is bad content design.

I haven't seen anyone asking for more healing buttons, I've seen people asking for more healing and others asking for more dps buttons but the only people I see want more healing buttons have been the developers.

That's not exclusive to M11S. If you have a WHM in like Week 1-3 Savage clear groups, you've pretty much been causing your group to do more work to mit properly for several expansions until the most recent change for WHM. In kind of an ironic way its not as big of a deal in Ultimate content since everyone is in full BiS. The increase in healing actions is accompanied by more mechanics and tight dps checks. Not so much asked for, but they're trying to push and improve battle content constantly and the increased healing actions are part of the result.

Good luck healing something like Day 1 M6s Yans autos on the OT without having the full DT kit of healing. Even then you might end up still having to GCD spam.

[RaionKansen]

snipped for character limit

You continue to not understand what you're talking about.

WHM disproportionately suffered in mitigation contribution in high end content on prog. Its been that way for a long time. People typically didn't like co-healing with WHM on prog because they knew they would end up having to do more work as the barrier healer. The gap between co-healing new content with a WHM and co-healing with an AST was notable. Now its not. It would even force the rest of the entire party to really stay on top of using their party mits too.

The healer split still exists. SGE struggles to provide the raw healing that WHM has unless the SGE blows all of their cooldowns and SGE really struggles if the regen healer never GCD heals. AST and SCH can kind of "do it all" but it takes a lot of effort and you really have to know what you're doing.

Regen healers aren't weak in Savage. Specifically WHM felt bad to co-heal with on prog for several expansions. They absolutely know what they're doing with healers.

I don't know what point you're trying to make about Seraphism at all. Healers, in the current state of the game don't want to GCD heal and at the end of the day you have to GCD heal to get the benefits of Seraphism aside from the HoT which is like an extra Whispering Dawn. You can do a bunch of crazy healing, but you wouldn't really ever want to. Most people just use it to make a huge Spreadlo. In a way its kind of a cool thing since SCH can potentially save a really bad situation unlike any other healer, but its not going to be something you do every pull.

Criterion actually gives SGE a lot of work to do. I don't know how you think it has a bias towards SGE in any way lol. SGE has the weakest raw healing out of all the healers and although you have shields, you have to work to actually top people back up.

You said neither Philosophia or Physis should exist because you personally think they should just have "Pankardia". I think that's a terrible idea. What would "Pankardia" look like? Is it just an AoE soteria on a cooldown? If they got rid of Physis II they would have to increase the potency on SGE healing. SGE can't really create the same shields SCH can. The trade off is basically Physis II, Kerachole, and instant shields.

This is why is so important for you to actually be engaged in current content before you make these kind of comments...

[Supersnow845]

I don’t even know if it’s worth replying to the entire comment when you don’t even understand what pankardia would be

It means exactly what you think it means. PAN means all, kardia means heal on hit, so pankardia means heal all on hit. It’s spread kardia, why on earth would you think it’s soteria (though if it was buffed by soteria that would be a nice buff for soteria)

You also say “people use seraphism to make a huge spreadlo” when you cannot use recitation on manifestation so I honestly think you don’t actually know how the healers work

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If they know how to design healers then a Co-WHM wouldn't be a prick to co-heal with for four expansions in a row. Just gonna put that one out there, lol.

Make it make sense.

[RaionKansen]

I don’t even know if it’s worth replying to the entire comment when you don’t even understand what pankardia would be

It means exactly what you think it means. PAN means all, kardia means heal on hit, so pankardia means heal all on hit. It’s spread kardia, why on earth would you think it’s soteria (though if it was buffed by soteria that would be a nice buff for soteria)

So a spread karida that's just on forever? how is that balanced.

I was pretty sure that DT didn't work under seraphism, but I typically just play SGE for savage/ultimates and I searched it real quick and the first couple links said that it did so I trusted that information. That's my bad

[Supersnow845]

So a spread karida that's just on forever? how is that balanced.

I was pretty sure that DT didn't work under seraphism, but I typically just play SGE for savage/ultimates and I searched it real quick and the first couple links said that it did so I trusted that information. That's my bad

ITS. A. CD.

Where your physis button is replace that with pankardia. 1 minute CD. Actually tied to the job system they were apparently so proud of when they announced SGE as the DPS healer. Actually gives soteria a use

And deployment works fine under seraphism, RECITATION doesn’t.

[Carighan]

So a spread karida that's just on forever? how is that balanced.

/shrug

Why would it not be?

I mean DPS can spam their filler AoE endlessly instead of their filler ST combo? Makes symmetrical sense that Sage would have a party-Kardia to use instead of the single-target-Kardia, too?

[RaionKansen]

/shrug

Why would it not be?

I mean DPS can spam their filler AoE endlessly instead of their filler ST combo? Makes symmetrical sense that Sage would have a party-Kardia to use instead of the single-target-Kardia, too?

There wouldn't be a reason to use single-target Kardia if it affected the whole party unless they make boss auto attacks do a ton of damage in the future or if the healing from the party kardia was really really low. They could just change Kardia to be party-wide I guess. You already kind of have to overheal with drucholes to manage your mana and stop your addersgall gauge from overcapping