Black Mage - the solution for everything?

[Chardrizard]

So the point of jobs is party play. Healers heal whoever needs it and DD's damage deal. Now it's different because we have medicine?

THAT's where all this sh*t is happening. Healers don't want to heal dd's and black mage is the easiest job on the planet. Something needs to be changed not only with the game but with the community.

Stop twisting people's words. Do you know why there is complains when everyone wipes on primals upon winning, not enough time to raise? you know what would happen when everyone have a raise tunic? Oh everyone can suddenly get up and get their primals chest.

There are times when WHMs are silenced and you could use heal right away as a tank or party is gonna wipe, an elixir might just save your group an entire 20min.

There are times when WHMs hate are tight (ex.chimera) and people that takes unncessary damage and possibly causing the party to wipe because they keep taking unncessary damage, Poison from Bad breath, Poison Sting from Chimera if you are meleeing (which you could then use Blood drops to cures the poison), because sometimes its just not possible to esuna everyone if alot of members are getting hit by poison.

This situations will occur one way or another and a well prepared player might just saves an entire run.

[DeadRiser]

Well the way you have been talking about it, seems that everyone is solo in party.

[Chardrizard]

Well the way you have been talking about it, seems that everyone is solo in party.

I apologizes if it came out that way, i was merely saying that you can't expect everyone to be available everytime at every situation, there are times you need to take care of yourself. Alot people just sits there waiting for death because they don't carry meds.

[Jokerz]

Well the way you have been talking about it, seems that everyone is solo in party.

No hes not, what he is suggesting is to carry extra items to take care of yourself in case the healers can't get you right then and there. It's all about making the run more livable, if healers are pressed on MP or at hate cap it doesn't hurt to pop a potion to alleviate some of the stress.

[Arksniper]

If mobs didn't spin like tops 1/2 the time melee would out dmg bard/blm. But thanks to server lag and odd hit boxes comboing is a bitch. Also its easier to be a bad mage than a bad melee. Ifrit is a prime example where shitty dd's are like going in 7/8 or less because they are constantly eating AoE and other dmg which is draining on the mages and when they die its -dps. Sadly people that can dd well are in the minority thus pugs = easy street.

[YuriSan]

your opinion is just "ahh hell leave me alone with that, i dont care about other people"

Really? thats what it was?
Damn i must suck at reading and understanding (lol)

[Ryuko]

It's the stigma. People see BLM as the easiest way to do things and therefor instantly try to cater every fight to BLM's because that's what they're used to. I'm assuming you have seen the video of a JP group beating garuda with all jobs present, right? This proves that it's more than possible, but not many are willing to 'think outside the box' like that just yet.

It's the same reason most people use the SAME exact strategies to beat endgame content. Once one person does it, and it is a tried+true method, everyone else chooses to do it that way too. (Examples: The BLM burn Garuda, or the BG setup since they were the first to beat it, or the wall-stacking method to beat Chimera.) Everyone sees how it's possible and starts trying it that way. After the first group beats something and reveals their strategy, it spreads like wildfire until it is the 'known' and 'accepted' strategy that most groups attempt to adapt to.

Another reason is because gearing a class takes a lot of time and money. Double (or even triple) melding an item takes a lot more gil and/or time than many who play this game are willing to commit to. Therefore, they have to really choose... 'which class am I going to try to gear the best'? Many choose BLM, and for them, their melee gear will never compare. There are very few of us that can take the time to double/triple meld multiple classes. So, when it comes down to... "Hey, let's try a different strategy," it may inevitably look bad because the 'new strategy' involving classes that aren't geared as well simply won't put out the same kind of performance.

The stigma of BLM being the 'best' for everything also puts all other classes 'out of practice'. If you don't play other classes very often, you just might not be as efficient at them... and that is another reason the other classes may appear inferior when people actually try to play them. I encourage thinking outside the box, especially if you have a class you'd like to play that others don't often look for. When SE designs these fights, they make sure there is a way for melee classes to survive and thrive. You just have to find it... and the unfortunate truth to this is that the BLM/range niche is often easier to discover than the 'up close and person' one.

[Jokerz]

Ryuko, you are entirely correct in your post. But keep in mind the human factor. It's really difficult to get people to try things beyond "what works" due to the simple adage of "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" I'm sorry but you aren't going to change a whole opinions mind when people want to win.

As I said in my post, SE needs to find ways to encourage people to balance their pt's. Only then will you change the communities opinion on the matter.

[Kinseykinz]

Its not BLM's damage thats the problem, its because most NMs and raid bosses have powerful AoEs (ifrit's sear, coincounter's 100 tonze, Garuda has one, cerb, etc etc) and people don't like healing melee, a well geared MNK can easily out DPS a BLM, but they get hit by AoEs, and a good DRG can almost match MNK, and about equal or a little better than BLM.

The thing is BLM is safe from the AoEs and WHMs don't like healing melee DDs, they see it as a waste of MP, remember before jobs? all DDs NEED sentinal, Cure, Second wind or gtfo, if they nerfed BLM, or added bosses with high magic resistance people would just say BRD ONRY!!! the only reason, because it is out of AoE range no other reason.

I remember first DHs, "you guys want a LNC?" "ARC ONRY, LNC will get raped by AoEs" "then CON can heal me" "thier job is to keep the tank alive, not DDs"

Yes that actually happened for over 1 month.

The classes/jobs that are typically sought have nothing to do with Healers not wanting to work/heal others...that's like saying that blm's don't like seeing their spells hit for the highest damage. Healers WANT to heal everyone at all times...it's a sick addiction they have.

1. The reason that Conjurers focused on the tank and ONLY the tank for DH and Ifrit is because we were using the new spells and their costs but the old mana pool. And back in Darkhold days, CNJ didn't even have abilities like Blissful Mind or Shroud of Saints to work with. Also, THM was still the only way to get 85%+ of the debuffs on mobs. So yes, because your average DD couldn't avoid getting seriously injured and/or caused the Ogre to elbow drop, Conjurers, Tanks and Parties went with the safer ranged DD attacks THM's and ARC could provide.

2. Ifrit. Again, we had the same piss-poor mana pool. But if you remember Archer was Not the king of this battle due to animation lock. And THM well, again low HP's made them a liability but one was always nice for the DOT. Also, the 'safe spots' for Ifrit even to this day are not 'optimal' for a WHM, let alone a CNJ to keep the entire party fully buffed, healed and the tank topped off easily. Back in the day it was even more problematic as the MP pool was still low considering the abilities we had/spell cost of the time. Also, the range, circular nature of CNJ/WHM buffs makes it hard to buff the entire party in one shot. (DD's could help by running to tank at key points in the battle but do you know how many time's I've done Iffy and NOT seen a single DD gather on the tank for buffs...esp after Hellfire?)

Cutters, Moogles and Veil: All are DD friendly, if not the whole battle, at least specific parts.

3. People don't typically do the Moogle Battle with 4BLM's simply because BLM's will run out of MP WAY before they could ever burn down every moogle. (which btw is the REAL way to get rid of the stacking of BRD/BLM, make it a battle that lasts longer than BLM's mana pool and something that bard just can't do enough damage to=we <3 Monk,WAR,LNC,PLD)

4.Cutters can be WAR or BLM burned on princess...and parties came up with this strategy not because the WHM's didn't want to heal DD's but because again, your average pick-up dd doesn't know how to quickly target the one mob he should be hitting when it's buried in a pile of 20. BLM's and War's are able to AOE like mad (so they can't target either but at least they have the aoe damage to compensate for it). However, technically Monks who know how to target would be way better on the Princess. Monks and Lancers can do awesome on chimera, but again it is on them (not the healer) to know where to stand to avoid traps and aoe damage. But Chimera has ranged attacks and close up attacks. The fact that mages are used more than DD's has more to do with the close up DD's not knowing how to avoid moves and traps and/or a tank that turn Chimmy wrong forcing the close-range DD to eat an aoe/trap. (And yes, the WHM's again may or may not heal anyone other than the tank in this fight depending on how much hate the tank has at the time... this fight is hard on WHM's because depending on how trigger happy your DD's were/how well tank dodged in beginning WHM's are riding the hate threshold the whole fight.)

5. Veil is actually pretty forgiving as to the set-up you use. The main reason for BLM/MNK burn in Veil is because both classes tend to be more efficient, meaning faster clears than othersetups. But any setup that has at least 1 tank and 1-2 healers would work in there.

6. Garuda...yes, atm She's a BLM burn. But most of this is for 2 reasons. One: speed, you can kill her in under 5 mins this way meaning every 20ish minutes you can be working towards sexy weapons. Two: DD's have yet to figure out how to avoid her massive damage aoe's and still match the DPS of the BLM's/BRD's. The hotfix might address this as far as BLM being able to out DPS the melee but that remains to be seen.

[DeadRiser]

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All this is true. I like Aurum Vale the best just because the party setup you use doesn't matter. What is also killing this is the time attacks as well. but that's a different story.

Sorry Chardrizard if you're seeing this, was just a misunderstanding.