Please do something about dps survavibility in OC

[Stasya]

So the problem isn't healers, it's tanks.

Bad design choices is the problem, not tanks.

No spells present to be used by everyone to help with sustain. All healing in phantom jobs is just randomly scattered. What was in bozja with tons of strictly defensive/lifesteal items is gone in OC.

[Asari5]

tanks are a problem


i think one or two cross phantom skills would be great though.
if you wanna keep lvl up all phantom jobs you never really get to enjoy the max lvl skill xD
it would help with this problem too

[Azurarok]

Each phantom job is the core essence of the job (or someone's idea of it, anyway), not some generic collection buttons from a role.

People keep asking for flavor, but when finally presented with it, I guess no one actually wants it, because flavor means having strengths and weaknesses, things that only you can do and things where you're reliant on others to fill the gap.

That's because I see Field Exploration content as places where the trinity doesn't need to function, unlike standard content where comps are somewhat enforced. Where they introduce it matters

[Derio]

Phantom jobs were supposed to be the answer for this. However they have been too safe of a venture. The lost action system which were only 2 actions is still better than the phantom jobs.

[AmiableApkallu]

That's because I see Field Exploration content as places where the trinity doesn't need to function

Except that's contradicted by your notion of {field operation system} "letting you cross role boundaries." If the trinity doesn't need to function, then there are no role boundaries to be crossed in the first place.

The reality is that the trinity does need to function -- in Eureka, in Bozja, in Occult Crescent. It's simply that in Eureka and Bozja, Lost Actions let you play as one role while cosplaying as a second role at the same time. In Occult Crescent, Phantom Jobs decided to focus on job flavor and not the cosplay.

And let's be real:

• A third iteration of Lost Actions would have seen everyone complaining about lack of creativity, or lack of experimentation, or lack of risk taking, or something. One of the shortcomings with OC is that it takes advantage of Phantom Job flavor only in Forked Tower (in the same way that Lost Actions basically don't matter unless you're in BA or DRS).
• The notion that you need a mere two buttons and a single passive to perform an effective cosplay of a role is a damning indictment of PvE job design. It boggles my mind that anyone would hold that up as good design.

[hydralus]

This is funny in a way. Heals and other mechanics other than DDR being needed is actually good. But that's where it becomes interesting in content that doesn't guarantees certain roles of the trinity to play along the system: in Eureka/Bozja you could just take logograms or lost actions to alleviate your survivability, but here, you can't.
Now if was willing to indulge in some doom posting, watch SE permanently delete survivability requirements like they did in deep dungeons instead of fixing the damn problem...

I swear you mention DDR in every post you make.

[Supersnow845]

Each phantom job is the core essence of the job (or someone's idea of it, anyway), not some generic collection buttons from a role.

People keep asking for flavor, but when finally presented with it, I guess no one actually wants it, because flavor means having strengths and weaknesses, things that only you can do and things where you're reliant on others to fill the gap.

While I agree with your point (and I know I complain about them a lot) the problem is again tanks. Healers and DPS fighting over being roughly useful to a party and being too squishy solo is pointless when every shred of OC incentivises usage of the tanks.

None of the phantom jobs raise core survivability nor does arcanauts armour (like elemental bonus does in eureka or going 5/2 with bonus magecite). Phantom actions ignore tank mastery’s damage penalty and tanks already do roughly the same damage solo as the physical ranged.

I agree at its core you can’t want identity and variety without downsides to go along with upsides but you also can’t really blame the DPS for feeling forced to need a healer or the healers for feeling forced to run support jobs (like chemist in forked) when the tanks just have literally zero downsides and every upside in OC

[Azurarok]

Except that's contradicted by your notion of {field operation system} "letting you cross role boundaries." If the trinity doesn't need to function, then there are no role boundaries to be crossed in the first place.

The reality is that the trinity does need to function -- in Eureka, in Bozja, in Occult Crescent. It's simply that in Eureka and Bozja, Lost Actions let you play as one role while cosplaying as a second role at the same time. In Occult Crescent, Phantom Jobs decided to focus on job flavor and not the cosplay.

And let's be real:

• A third iteration of Lost Actions would have seen everyone complaining about lack of creativity, or lack of experimentation, or lack of risk taking, or something. One of the shortcomings with OC is that it takes advantage of Phantom Job flavor only in Forked Tower (in the same way that Lost Actions basically don't matter unless you're in BA or DRS).
• The notion that you need a mere two buttons and a single passive to perform an effective cosplay of a role is a damning indictment of PvE job design. It boggles my mind that anyone would hold that up as good design.

By the trinity doesn't need to function I mean no one needs to follow the boundaries each role was assigned. It gives you a place to play a job in a way you can't elsewhere, and maybe I like that because the role I started this game with gets to do jack shit in most content.

Also I might not really be understanding what you mean by flavor here. Phantom Jobs are sets of several skills, some useful, and some super situational ones fitting the theme of the Phantom Job. I'm guessing you mean the situational ones that are essentially useless outside Forked are flavor here. I don't have issue with those existing, I do have issue with being locked into single sets with no flexibility.

[Rithy255]

It's because phantom jobs don't really allow your role to become a different class. OC should be the place where your job type doesn't matter and should be highly customizable, but it has failed in that I was excited mostly because Theirs so much more you can do with 5 actions. But they've wasted that.

We need a Phantom job that acts as a Tank, Healer & Dps, which will have passives that increase and decrees those attributes, rather then the system of having Phantom jobs that put on skills that don't really transform your job just changes some things, theirs also no way to mix and match skills to better let you have customization.

Heres what I'd add: (to the current system)

• Some phantom jobs with very basic baseline tank/heal skills, such as a cure 2 and medica, eminity generating skill and provoke for a tank
• Add a Passive modifier that will increase and decrease aspects of your baseline, Such as increasing your healing by 50% but reducing damage for a dps or removing passive mitigation (the 20%) and reducing your hp down to a maiming dps. Or even a DPS trait for tanks/healers that speed up your GCD while reducing healing or passive mitigation/hp
• A way to mix and match skills from phantom jobs.

This would solve issues with the system being super bland and give you way more to customize, I think they really fumbled phantom jobs, it could have been so good, but they somehow made it worse then bozja system and that had limited charge abilities and only two extra abilities...

Oh well I guess we can all cope for 8.2 to have a system that is fun

Added: Just as I side note from reading some comments yeah tanks are a issue they have way too much mitigation value in general, but I think this is a fully separate issue to do with the job balancing being terrible, I would rather a DPS spec into tanking or healing if they want to be more survivable in OC We all know SE will never make the game customisable for anyone wanting to play anything other then your traditional wand mage backline healer is out of luck (or Tanky Samurai/Dragoon Healing red mage ect.), So It would be nice if OC would have at let me been a cool knight healer smh... OC should be where this strict "trinity system" is broken down and allowed for experimentation. (I'd argue the game would be better as of a whole if we moved away from the trinity system being strict but I doubt they'd ever do anything like that...)

[Varilyon]

Oh well I guess we can all cope for 8.2 to have a system that is fun

Hahahaha, as if!


PvP is a place where the trinity in itself doesnt exist. As a tank I often heal or dps more than the others. Before that my scholar often did highest damage. And every class can heal themselves.
I agree OC should have been a place without the trinity with cool and useful skills. SE has failed and I don't believe they learned from it.

To all players of OC I can only suggest going with friends or as a tank.