Please do something about dps survavibility in OC

[Supersnow845]

Is Occult Cresent supposed to be role agnostic? I admit that I might have missed that citation.

That aside, scheduled, unavoidable raidwides are basically "DDR slop" as you like to call it. Holding that up as an example that makes "healers still relevant" is like saying bosses having HP bars makes "DPS still relevant." Technically true, but meaningless in terms of interesting gameplay.

I think it’s more people expected OC to be role agnostic because it’s basically built that way but then they just decided to not actually do anything with it

Take Bozja but instead of bringing particular lost actions you instead bring a “job” to compliment your actual job. Playing a DPS? Bring a tank job for more survivability. Etc

However every phantom job is just a flavour of do more damage without accounting for how “every phantom job is a DPS increase” tilts in favour of doing everything as a tank

[Valence]

Is Occult Cresent supposed to be role agnostic? I admit that I might have missed that citation.

That aside, scheduled, unavoidable raidwides are basically "DDR slop" as you like to call it. Holding that up as an example that makes "healers still relevant" is like saying bosses having HP bars makes "DPS still relevant." Technically true, but meaningless in terms of interesting gameplay.

I'm not necessarily saying it is role agnostic, but I'm saying that it's not role restricted either. This is not very different from old Frontlines before the introduction of field elixirs and recuperate and the modern pvp rework, where winning without a healer was a pipe dream, and having two or three would dramatically help, so people had to "bite the bullet for the team". Sometimes nobody did though, and you ended up in a similar situation, minus the tanks being invulnerable.

As some others have already mentioned above, not having logograms or lost actions to make up for your chosen job lacking specific role abilities, makes it a potential problem of OC compared to Eureka or Bozja.

I don't ever recall using the word "DDR slop". I never or barely use that word unlike all the memers here. You probably have me confused with someone else. But it's funny nonetheless to have become the embodiment of DDR on those forums considering the amount of people using it - may I talk to you about our lady and savior Mao?

[Asari5]

tanks are a problem


i think one or two cross phantom skills would be great though.
if you wanna keep lvl up all phantom jobs you never really get to enjoy the max lvl skill xD
it would help with this problem too

[Derio]

Phantom jobs were supposed to be the answer for this. However they have been too safe of a venture. The lost action system which were only 2 actions is still better than the phantom jobs.

[Azurarok]

Except that's contradicted by your notion of {field operation system} "letting you cross role boundaries." If the trinity doesn't need to function, then there are no role boundaries to be crossed in the first place.

The reality is that the trinity does need to function -- in Eureka, in Bozja, in Occult Crescent. It's simply that in Eureka and Bozja, Lost Actions let you play as one role while cosplaying as a second role at the same time. In Occult Crescent, Phantom Jobs decided to focus on job flavor and not the cosplay.

And let's be real:

• A third iteration of Lost Actions would have seen everyone complaining about lack of creativity, or lack of experimentation, or lack of risk taking, or something. One of the shortcomings with OC is that it takes advantage of Phantom Job flavor only in Forked Tower (in the same way that Lost Actions basically don't matter unless you're in BA or DRS).
• The notion that you need a mere two buttons and a single passive to perform an effective cosplay of a role is a damning indictment of PvE job design. It boggles my mind that anyone would hold that up as good design.

By the trinity doesn't need to function I mean no one needs to follow the boundaries each role was assigned. It gives you a place to play a job in a way you can't elsewhere, and maybe I like that because the role I started this game with gets to do jack shit in most content.

Also I might not really be understanding what you mean by flavor here. Phantom Jobs are sets of several skills, some useful, and some super situational ones fitting the theme of the Phantom Job. I'm guessing you mean the situational ones that are essentially useless outside Forked are flavor here. I don't have issue with those existing, I do have issue with being locked into single sets with no flexibility.

[Rithy255]

It's because phantom jobs don't really allow your role to become a different class. OC should be the place where your job type doesn't matter and should be highly customizable, but it has failed in that I was excited mostly because Theirs so much more you can do with 5 actions. But they've wasted that.

We need a Phantom job that acts as a Tank, Healer & Dps, which will have passives that increase and decrees those attributes, rather then the system of having Phantom jobs that put on skills that don't really transform your job just changes some things, theirs also no way to mix and match skills to better let you have customization.

Heres what I'd add: (to the current system)

• Some phantom jobs with very basic baseline tank/heal skills, such as a cure 2 and medica, eminity generating skill and provoke for a tank
• Add a Passive modifier that will increase and decrease aspects of your baseline, Such as increasing your healing by 50% but reducing damage for a dps or removing passive mitigation (the 20%) and reducing your hp down to a maiming dps. Or even a DPS trait for tanks/healers that speed up your GCD while reducing healing or passive mitigation/hp
• A way to mix and match skills from phantom jobs.

This would solve issues with the system being super bland and give you way more to customize, I think they really fumbled phantom jobs, it could have been so good, but they somehow made it worse then bozja system and that had limited charge abilities and only two extra abilities...

Oh well I guess we can all cope for 8.2 to have a system that is fun

Added: Just as I side note from reading some comments yeah tanks are a issue they have way too much mitigation value in general, but I think this is a fully separate issue to do with the job balancing being terrible, I would rather a DPS spec into tanking or healing if they want to be more survivable in OC We all know SE will never make the game customisable for anyone wanting to play anything other then your traditional wand mage backline healer is out of luck (or Tanky Samurai/Dragoon Healing red mage ect.), So It would be nice if OC would have at let me been a cool knight healer smh... OC should be where this strict "trinity system" is broken down and allowed for experimentation. (I'd argue the game would be better as of a whole if we moved away from the trinity system being strict but I doubt they'd ever do anything like that...)

[Varilyon]

Oh well I guess we can all cope for 8.2 to have a system that is fun

Hahahaha, as if!


PvP is a place where the trinity in itself doesnt exist. As a tank I often heal or dps more than the others. Before that my scholar often did highest damage. And every class can heal themselves.
I agree OC should have been a place without the trinity with cool and useful skills. SE has failed and I don't believe they learned from it.

To all players of OC I can only suggest going with friends or as a tank.

[XtremePrime]

Phantom jobs should solve the issue here, the problem is that phantom jobs are mutually exclusive, meaning if you use mastered PH Knight to increase defense, you aren't able to actively train other PH Jobs. They could sort of solve this if they did what FFV did and shoved some of the mastered jobs passives and abilities into Freelancer.

[Kisshu]

The issue is that OC just doesn't offer any real healing or survival options for DPS.

In Eureka, you could turn the elemental stats to defense, use Eurekan potions and also get the fairy buff regen. Plus NMs didn't really have much unavoidable damage.
In Bozja, your defensive options were more limited without the elemental stats, but you could bring a wealth of Lost Actions for healing, potions and essences that boosted your survivability.
OC just doesn't have the same. The special gear only increase your main damage dealing stat and the special stat that increase damage for PJ abilities. Sure, some PJs have healing or defense abilities, but at times you want to level other PJs.
Just something like the Eurekan potions for a regen effect, or even a potion/essence that perhaps traded some damage dealt for a damage taken buff would do wonders for DPS.

[YumieYumiki]

The issue is that OC just doesn't offer any real healing or survival options for DPS.

Chemist have an instant full heal on a 3 seconds CD, so you can solo any fate as dps, provided that you do the mechanics correctly (even though the heal can let you live through some mistakes)

Plus you can instant res people also on a 3s cd.

You need to buy occult potions for the heal but its a good way to dump all those silver pieces anyway (I dont bother with the OC specific gear, I dont need more inventory clutter)

Even for CEs, if you cant get a group or have no healer, you can still pretty effecively participate solo as chemist.

You still have plenty of opportunities to level other phantom jobs when fates are getting zerged or when playing CEs in a party with healer(s)