Can we please

[Ephremjlm]

Seems to me as if it would just be easier across the board to have at least one or two people in an FC that aren't opposed to crafting. Supply them with the needed materials.

Profit.

If none of you enjoy crafting or gathering, which is a major part of the MMORPG experience, then... I don't know what to say. As for dungeon gear... why not just run the dungeons?

It is not a major part of THE mmorpg experience. Maybe YOURS, but I've been playing MMO's for over 20 years, and have played games like classic FFXI which are far more tedious, and didn't craft. That's not even the argument here. I can't for the life of me understand why you people keep arguing that as if it's a good rebuttal for not being able to trade simple dungeon gear. I even said multiple times what we were doing. Do you really think farming them full sets of gear via dungeons, or tombstones is something that we could just do in the moment? These arguments are all in bad faith that maybe try to perform some kind of weird gotcha? I just don't understand the lack of empathy here.

We worked with the people we had available, and we wanted to play together. We were all level 100. They had 7.1 gear. We wanted to trade them slightly better gear, but couldn't for an unexplained arbitrary reason. My argument is that they should change it and gave a real world example as to why. Simple as that.

[Avoidy]

I can't for the life of me understand why you people keep arguing that as if it's a good rebuttal for not being able to trade simple dungeon gear. I even said multiple times what we were doing. Do you really think farming them full sets of gear via dungeons, or tombstones is something that we could just do in the moment? These arguments are all in bad faith that maybe try to perform some kind of weird gotcha? I just don't understand the lack of empathy here.

First time?
My brother, these are the official forums you're posting on. Half of the accounts are just a highlander's bot, and the other half are just shitposters playing devil's advocate for a small ten yen company while they're bored at work IRL. There are people here who bitch about the cost of a phoenix down. There are people who defend the cash shop. These aren't serious people.
The only reason to keep dungeon gear untradeable is to provide an incentive for people to farm that dungeon long-term. But since most of the dungeon gear in this expansion has been ugly af and/or undyeable, and the level 100 dungeons don't have a pity drop system like leveling dungeons do, most people don't bother with the farm so it's a moot point. That other person who explained why your crafted gear was expensive was correct; everyone's buying it again right now to turn it into 750 gear. You picked probably the second worst time to buy it; the actual worst time would have been at release, and the second worst time was right now, literally in this moment, because demand's spiked. It's not a good time to catch up unless you're rich or have a rich friend, or have a lot of time to farm normal raid gear like that other dude suggested.
3 pages of comments and only like 2 actually helpful replies; welcome to the official forums bro.

[Ephremjlm]

First time?
My brother, these are the official forums you're posting on. Half of the accounts are just a highlander's bot, and the other half are just shitposters playing devil's advocate for a small ten yen company while they're bored at work IRL. There are people here who bitch about the cost of a phoenix down. There are people who defend the cash shop. These aren't serious people.
The only reason to keep dungeon gear untradeable is to provide an incentive for people to farm that dungeon long-term. But since most of the dungeon gear in this expansion has been ugly af and/or undyeable, and the level 100 dungeons don't have a pity drop system like leveling dungeons do, most people don't bother with the farm so it's a moot point. That other person who explained why your crafted gear was expensive was correct; everyone's buying it again right now to turn it into 750 gear. You picked probably the second worst time to buy it; the actual worst time would have been at release, and the second worst time was right now, literally in this moment, because demand's spiked. It's not a good time to catch up unless you're rich or have a rich friend, or have a lot of time to farm normal raid gear like that other dude suggested.
3 pages of comments and only like 2 actually helpful replies; welcome to the official forums bro.

It is not my first time lol. I want people who by chance do read this though, to actually realize how absurd their arguments are. How they don't address any of the points. I know exactly why they keep most things untradeable, and it's not for fear of RMT, because they kill the economy on their own. It's why I made the supporting points I did. That said, dungeon gear acts as a pseudo currency for other things, and it would literally break absolutely nothing if they did make it tradeable. Dailies still have their incentives. Why equip dungeon gear when you can farm tombs unless you are in a situation similar to what i mentioned. It would actually break absolutely nothing.

[All_Nonsense]

This thread is why the game will drop off a cliff very soon. For the record, I'm all caught up, savage BiS, all that nonsense so this isn't really a problem I can relate to. However, as a human possessing of empathy and a very mild level of intelligence (enough to shake my head and it doesn't make a rattle sound) I think I can translate for the "best community:"

- Most of the "players" are "dead" accounts, and SE needs them back badly. If they didn't, you'd be getting shitty copy-paste instead of "we copy-pasted but we made the fights good this time please don't leave"

- Most people that come back want to play the content that came out. That was the reason they came back. This is, in most cases, SE's only chance at getting their missing players back

- If coming back to play the content is a bad experience for ANY reason, the players will simply leave. SE and the greater community isn't entitled to healthy retention. The game will simply continue to decline and in 5ish years everyone will cry about they "good old days" in which they conveniently forget they were part of the unwelcoming force that drove away fresh players or returning players

- "So you're saying that SE should bend to the whims of the-" yes. Obviously I am, don't be dense. Where the majority of the money comes from (not raiders btw, not the 12 people who run roulettes every day without fail. Not the forums even lol. The majority) should dictate the needs of this game. Namely QoL problems remedied, and actual midcore content (stop mr raider. I see you. Stop right there I caught you typing). A good story would deffo help too, but after 7.3 ended with "it was the Ascians they're back" we all know the story is cooked and 8.0 might be worse than 7.0.


I get it. This game is y'alls job or whatever. I don't really care. I play the game to have fun and that's what most people do. When we stop having fun, we leave, simple as. When my sub expires I have renew turned off. That might be the first good thing for you to look forward to in over a year. But the way you're treating this dude for airing genuine grievances? Shame. Not unexpected, but shame nonetheless.

[Haru304]

It is not a major part of THE mmorpg experience. Maybe YOURS, but I've been playing MMO's for over 20 years, and have played games like classic FFXI which are far more tedious, and didn't craft. That's not even the argument here. I can't for the life of me understand why you people keep arguing that as if it's a good rebuttal for not being able to trade simple dungeon gear. I even said multiple times what we were doing. Do you really think farming them full sets of gear via dungeons, or tombstones is something that we could just do in the moment? These arguments are all in bad faith that maybe try to perform some kind of weird gotcha? I just don't understand the lack of empathy here.

We worked with the people we had available, and we wanted to play together. We were all level 100. They had 7.1 gear. We wanted to trade them slightly better gear, but couldn't for an unexplained arbitrary reason. My argument is that they should change it and gave a real world example as to why. Simple as that.

If you - and your friends - want to exclude an entire progression pillar from your game-play, that's entirely valid. It is however disingenuous to imply it isn't a 'major part' of the experience simply because you choose not to engage with it. It's how these systems are designed.

The system expects; some level of time investment, gil/material investment or community investment.

I understand, fully, that you just want the easiest possible path of least resistance short-cut so you and your friends can tackle the most recent content - and leave again - but that's not how this game works by design. And it shouldn't do so. Because that's not how the participation loop for the game is intended.

The reasons why you can't trade for dungeon gear would, off the top of my head, revolve around... RMT abuse, keeping personal engagement with the content, ensures that there's some tangible value to participating in dungeon content, etc.

Free gear distribution without participation is a horrendous idea.

[Tulvi]

I can't for the life of me understand why you people keep arguing that as if it's a good rebuttal for not being able to trade simple dungeon gear. I even said multiple times what we were doing. Do you really think farming them full sets of gear via dungeons, or tombstones is something that we could just do in the moment? These arguments are all in bad faith that maybe try to perform some kind of weird gotcha? I just don't understand the lack of empathy here.

Absolutely with you on this one. There’s no reason why dungeon gear or even tomestones gear from a vendor couldn’t be traded. 100% of that gear gets unused with the next iLVL cap raise anyway - ending up in glamour dressers, traded in with GC or simply discarded. I’d be more than happy to kickstart a returning friend so we can play together. It doesn’t hurt my ego, nor does it invalidate hours of my own experience farming that gear. There’s ofc multiple ways of obtaining tomestones, one doesn’t have to do only roulettes, but what if that returning player isn’t fond of that content? Should we subject them to farming it for a week? They’ll lose interest in the game, because they might have come back for one piece of content. I honestly don’t think it’s a big deal to allow used dungeon / tomes gear to be tradable. Some people will have the counter-argument of “farming your gear after returning helps you remember your job again”… BS. If that was why roulettes are there, then we wouldn’t have the crafted gear option.

I swear a big part of this community sometimes acts like they have a patent on how to play this game and any suggestion for a different approach “isn’t the right way to have fun”.