Phoenix Down in 4-Player Content is a Great Idea

[Kohashi]

Gameplaywise this is definitely the step in the wrong direction (for now.). This game is already too easy and not punishing enough.
We have to ask ourself what actually is Final Fanatsy as a whole. Except some of the skills like Cure,Flare ect and the occasional references to older FF titles in MSQ and Raids there isnt much that screams "That's Final Fantasy". Bringing a staple like the Phoenix Down in a useable way back to XIV is actually not too bad.
This also gives them the option to make future 4-Man Casual content like Expertdungeons a bit more challenging.

The healer mains crying about this - please hand over Swiftcast and Surecast back to blackmage.

I must admit, when I was new to the game, I was rewarded with a phoenix down, and I genuinely tried to revive one of my fallen teammates because I remembered from one of their previous games that this is what the item does.

Why would this be a step in the wrong direction? It is in line with their previous games and a nice addition to it.

As for more challenging content, I wish they would incorporate more mechanics that you see in harder types of content, but done in a simplistic and non-punishing manner. Most of the stuff that you learn in dungeons is Stack, Tank Buster, and spread.

[Aviatorhead]

Ok but why does healer have to be boring one button mage jobs. I like being a "Paladin" that supports my group, Frankly healer gameplay is so dull that doing it on a tank like Paladin where you have a actual rotation is night and day to how much more fun it is, Healing on healer is genuinely so dull, I generally play healers but FF14 healers are so poorly designed that Tank is the only role that has any appeal to me (Even then its flawed with how tanks are super defensive).

It should be the responsibility of the Tank and Healer to keep the party alive, both are support roles you can't tell me that tanks job should only be to mitigate and manage aggro because that's done automatically, This game doesn't offer "Healers" outside the traditional mage archetype, the fact that Tanks can be a more melee focused support based role is a good thing.

In the FULL Post I even mentioned to fix tanks and healers, because unlike healer mains who only care about healer design and cry that tanks like Paladin have access to healing skills, do not care about tanks enjoyment or identity when it comes to rebalancing the roles I think it should be BOTH the Healer and Tanks responsibility to keep their team alive.

That or they can make a actual healer job that isn't in a robe only casting spells, I don't see why Healers should only appeal to people who enjoy spamming one button and have to all be full on mages.

I play both roles, PLD is actually my favorite.

I don't care if the tanks get some healing and can contribute to the team's success that way. It's just that 95% of healer actions are healing, and theres barely any damage in this game that can't be avoided. So when you start healing too? We are being forced to fight over gameplay.

If you want tanks to have healing too, Ok, but something needs to change somewhere, because there is not enough healing responsibility in the game right now to even justify having a healer, let alone multiple jobs from different roles being capable of taking on that responsibility.

But my point when responding to you was that your fun of taking over my job when I die is not reason enough to stop the pheonix down change. I want to play the game, and the amount of times I've been forced to just watch has been a huge reason as to why I've been playing PLD/RPR for the past year and not SGE despite SGE still being my favorite job.

I think we actually mostly agree. I would prefer a game where there is enough healing responsibility for the tank and healer to share, without stepping on eachothers toes. We can't have that right this second because the devs work at a glaciers pace, so I think the PB change is better than nothing, cuz at least I'm not sitting on the floor, forced to watch a game I pay a sub for, while you take over

[Kaurhz]

I've got to take a slight chuckle at the optimism presented here lol...

"Hopefully it paves the way for making 4-man content more challenging"

[Kohashi]

I don't care if the tanks get some healing and can contribute to the team's success that way. It's just that 95% of healer actions are healing, and theres barely any damage in this game that can't be avoided. So when you start healing too? We are being forced to fight over gameplay

Funny enough, I was playing yesterday with my group, The Wreath of Snakes (Extreme) on MINE, and the pure healer was wheezing because of the multiple instances of raid wides leaving the party at 10-20%.

I would agree with you for low difficulty content, but for higher content, that's absolutely not true.

[Aviatorhead]

Funny enough, I was playing yesterday with my group Wrath of Snakes EX on MINE, and the pure healer was wheezing because of the multiple instances of raid wides leaving the party at 10-20%.

I would agree with you for low difficulty content, but for higher content, that's absolutely not true.

Ok? 90% of the game is 'low difficulty content'. I used to specifically log on just to run leveling roulette as a max lvl healer, all day, for hours, because it was fun and I felt nice helping sprouts. Now it is boring and can be downright miserable because healers have so little to do in that content.

[Supersnow845]

Casual content also means the deep dungeons, The field content zones, the treasure dungeons

It encapsulates everything besides savage and ultimate and their analogues

The band of people who play that content TO THE EXCLUSION of casual content is vanishingly small, why should jobs be an active drag in casual content because casual content is easy, like I mean 80% of the problems with the phantom jobs is that they aren’t enough to hide the rotting job design below like lost actions were. How is this a desirable endpoint

[Arrius]

I've got to take a slight chuckle at the optimism presented here lol...

"Hopefully it paves the way for making 4-man content more challenging"

Definitely sounds like faster executed mechanics, more knockback with a arena you can fall off, and more frequent AoE damage moments that need to be caught with stronger heals.

But in all, I welcome the PD changes. Sometimes, you just get a bad moment and the healer drops. And when you don't have a DPS who can pick them up, you are pretty much done for that bossfight.

[Catwho]

Ok but the most miserable part of the game is when this happens and I have to watch yall play the game + steal my job as healer. You're a tank, you're not supposed to be keeping up your dps, *that is my job.*

As someone who tanks a LOT, my general rule is I only bother doing the "clutch boss save" attempt if it's less than 10% health.

If the healer goes down and we're at 75% I'll yell "wall it" or stand in the bad or eat a raw tankbuster.

[Asako]

As someone who tanks a LOT, my general rule is I only bother doing the "clutch boss save" attempt if it's less than 10% health.

If the healer goes down and we're at 75% I'll yell "wall it" or stand in the bad or eat a raw tankbuster.

To be fair most of the community is like this. It's actually very rare for a Tank to solo a boss from high HP. They can do it for sure, but it's just a rare occurence. We just have a very loud minority on the forums who somehow believe it happens every pull.

[Kaurhz]

Eh... I wouldn't say my response was "optimism" so much as "dread" that they're going to ramp up difficulty in normal content even more than they already have, because casuals just can't have anything nice I guess, or how Yoshi-P really, REALLY wants to drive home "friction" by creating another possible source of it when a non-SMN/RDM DPS or tank doesn't have Phoenix Downs and possibly catching flak for it, or healers in general getting to feel even more useless because their toys keep getting handed out to every other role while they get nothing from those other roles in return.

I'm not even sure I can call the change "quality of life" yet because I'm still waiting for the monkey paw to curl, lol.

From my perspective it's just one of those changes to prevent a single point of failure with healer death. I don't really think they will go with more OHK (one-hit-kill). Otherwise you're just going to hit a discrepancy with difficulty of normal content across the board, e.g., it doesn't seem like it's present in 8-man or 24-man content, where you don't really have a single point of failure with 1 healing dying.

Definitely sounds like faster executed mechanics, more knockback with a arena you can fall off, and more frequent AoE damage moments that need to be caught with stronger heals.

But in all, I welcome the PD changes. Sometimes, you just get a bad moment and the healer drops. And when you don't have a DPS who can pick them up, you are pretty much done for that bossfight.

Wishful thinking, it's more than likely just that it is going to be something that prevents against healers from being a single point of failure, or issues with the absence of a healer, than what it actually is a means for them to pivot into thing like OHK knockback/platform falling, as this was already present in Yuyewata and Cenote

I agree with the latter, it's a welcome change if a healer dies and can't be revived, e.g., lack of alternative rez-able jobs, but don't really think it's in preparation for something bigger or 'better'.