Phoenix Down in 4-Player Content is a Great Idea

[Reimmi]

my hope is them adding this means they'll make healers more complex again, because the healer isn't going to be the make or break for 4 man content anymore because nobody else can res em

[Kohashi]

Gameplaywise this is definitely the step in the wrong direction (for now.). This game is already too easy and not punishing enough.
We have to ask ourself what actually is Final Fanatsy as a whole. Except some of the skills like Cure,Flare ect and the occasional references to older FF titles in MSQ and Raids there isnt much that screams "That's Final Fantasy". Bringing a staple like the Phoenix Down in a useable way back to XIV is actually not too bad.
This also gives them the option to make future 4-Man Casual content like Expertdungeons a bit more challenging.

The healer mains crying about this - please hand over Swiftcast and Surecast back to blackmage.

I must admit, when I was new to the game, I was rewarded with a phoenix down, and I genuinely tried to revive one of my fallen teammates because I remembered from one of their previous games that this is what the item does.

Why would this be a step in the wrong direction? It is in line with their previous games and a nice addition to it.

As for more challenging content, I wish they would incorporate more mechanics that you see in harder types of content, but done in a simplistic and non-punishing manner. Most of the stuff that you learn in dungeons is Stack, Tank Buster, and spread.

[Ryaze]

I must admit, when I was new to the game, I was rewarded with a phoenix down, and I genuinely tried to revive one of my fallen teammates because I remembered from one of their previous games that this is what the item does.

Why would this be a step in the wrong direction? It is in line with their previous games and a nice addition to it.

As for more challenging content, I wish they would incorporate more mechanics that you see in harder types of content, but done in a simplistic and non-punishing manner. Most of the stuff that you learn in dungeons is Stack, Tank Buster, and spread.

Because following gameplay themes and systems from single player turn-based RPGs doesn't always translate well to other genres. Yes, this is a Final Fantasy game, but that doesn't mean it should incorporate every single gameplay mechanic from the entire series.

A very common complaint throughout a lot of the playerbase is that there is a large subsection of players that never learn how to do basic story mode mechanics or learn how to properly play their job. Dying and wiping isn't a punishment, it's the natural response system in video games. It's not failure, it's direct feedback that someone did something wrong. Even partially negating that is going to encourage more limping across the finish line for MSQ duties instead of people taking the effort and learning how basic fights and mechanics work. Is it frustrating when someone is at a high level and doesn't understand core mechanics? Sure. But I'd rather have a longer duty and explain things so someone can learn (assuming they are receptive to communication and cooperation) than simply finish a duty quickly. I play online games (and MMOs) for the community, cooperation, and coordination, not for instant gratification.

There's a lot of mechanics that used to be extreme or savage only but have been incorporated into MSQ duties. It's happened for a long time, but it usually lags behind a couple of expansions. I think one of the more obvious ones in Dawntrail is the final boss of the lvl 93 dungeon, has a lot of mechanics ripped directly from E4S.

[Kohashi]

Because following gameplay themes and systems from single player turn-based RPGs doesn't always translate well to other genres. Yes, this is a Final Fantasy game, but that doesn't mean it should incorporate every single gameplay mechanic from the entire series.

A very common complaint throughout a lot of the playerbase is that there is a large subsection of players that never learn how to do basic story mode mechanics or learn how to properly play their job. Dying and wiping isn't a punishment, it's the natural response system in video games. It's not failure, it's direct feedback that someone did something wrong. Even partially negating that is going to encourage more limping across the finish line for MSQ duties instead of people taking the effort and learning how basic fights and mechanics work. Is it frustrating when someone is at a high level and doesn't understand core mechanics? Sure. But I'd rather have a longer duty and explain things so someone can learn (assuming they are receptive to communication and cooperation) than simply finish a duty quickly. I play online games (and MMOs) for the community, cooperation, and coordination, not for instant gratification.

There's a lot of mechanics that used to be extreme or savage only but have been incorporated into MSQ duties. It's happened for a long time, but it usually lags behind a couple of expansions. I think one of the more obvious ones in Dawntrail is the final boss of the lvl 93 dungeon, has a lot of mechanics ripped directly from E4S.

I mean, that's the entire idea of this game. An adaptation of their previous games in an MMO setup. I would have personally stayed away from it and just kept some sense of familiarity, like races and maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe some classes, but yeah, I do think it limited their creativity and innovation in terms of role/ class design, but anyway, that's beside the point now. Overall, I don't mind the idea.

As for stuff taking longer, I don't mind it either; however, I do approach the entire thing differently. I let them figure it out themselves. If they want guidance, they can ask. They aren't a bunch of toddlers whose hands need to be held at all times.

Regarding mechanics in duties/ raids normally they use a mix of old mechanics that people might be familiar with and also a few that are 100% new. I generally don't mind that formula either because I'm pretty sure, not a lot of people did all of the content religiously and still remeber every detail on how to solve it.

[Fawkes]

They should give me reraise instead.

[mallleable]

Gonna be keeping an eye on upcoming job changes as a result of these changes. At the very least, this seems like set up for some potentially really big changes, especially for jobs with rezzes.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Gonna be keeping an eye on upcoming job changes as a result of these changes. At the very least, this seems like set up for some potentially really big changes, especially for jobs with rezzes.

You are very optimistic about this lol. That's what I thought initially but cynicism prevails in the end.

[mallleable]

You are very optimistic about this lol. That's what I thought initially but cynicism prevails in the end.

Even if we assume this is being done primarily to make 4 player fights, especially group deep dungeons easier, and more forgiving, it's a decision that cannot be made in a vacuum. Even if we don't get get any job changes in 7.3, the dominoes are already falling.

[Aviatorhead]

None of this will matter until you're dead, at which point you've already failed and consigned your party to either a wipe or a 10+ minute tank solo.

The party having this option, then, for when you've failed (have died and/or can't be bothered to rez) is vastly preferable to not having it.



Should healers get more of interest to do, at minimum in terms of downtime activities (when no healing is required)? Of course. But that's independently been the case since Shadowbringers' release.

I'm not sure what these has to do with what I said, sorry, maybe I'm reading it wrong. But I agree with you & I've wanted more ways to rez for a while now. Making healers more interesting and necessary is the next step for the devs.

[Shurrikhan]

Because the rezzing isn't "stealing" one's job as a healer given that due to its limitations its almost only going to be used when the healer has already failed (is dead, or has let too many die to have MP/SC).

But if agreed on the result despite that difference in perspective, then alrighty.

EDIT: I misread the earlier quote. Because I rarely see the healer die early on (as they tend to murder themselves at least a bit less often than the DPS) and the tank then able to keep everyone up in healer-like fashion, I read had too much into it and missed the point.