@Casuals , do you think the message has gotten through?

[Valence]

The issue with Stayborough was that bullet-hell mechanics are AWFUL in this game because they are far ahead of where they appear to be. I don't have an issue with challenges in dungeons, but bullet-hell should be shelved until they can figure out how to not make the snapshots on them awful. As someone who does savage/ulti casually (no, im not a hardcore raider. I raid like 6 hours a week), this didn't challenge me in a "wow this is difficult and interesting" way, but in a "wow this is actually bullshit" way.

To rephrase this, it wasn't challenging, it was simply unfair and unfun. I can dodge orbs, but when they are like a whole yard of where they appear to be on good ping, its kinda just wtf.

It wasn't just unfair and unfun because the boss actually was designed to also make fun of you after your get hit. The add just grabs onto you and you can't do anything for ages while it carefully puts that AoE over your head, taking its sweet sweet time to hit you with it before letting you go (alive or dead). Losing complete control and agency of one's character is generally one of the worst thing you could design in a game, and it feels even worse when the game actually makes fun of you while doing it.

I feel like this stuff would have been infuriating either way, but people would have been a lot less mad about it without that middlefinger you get once you fail the mechanic.

[AmiableApkallu]

Losing complete control and agency of one's character is generally one of the worst thing you could design in a game

And yet people tend to praise PvP in this game. (I personally despise all the "crowd control.")

But going back to Strayborough, the adds just need a little orange AoE marker in front of them indicating how far they'll lunge, because I feel like that's what the encounter design is going for and not communicating effectively.

[0blivion]

I'd usually ignore the blatant generalizations, but I feel the need to say that as long as people are trying, I'm more than willing to help. But if someone uses Cure I at level 100, and don't stop after being told that's bad, that is very much a them problem, and they deserve ridicule. Trying is key in general.

That's why the snipers in FT suck. They don't try to actually put in the effort in organizing and spreadsheeting and pulling their weight.

There's plenty of people in this thread who think not trying is an okay position to have, and it's not while you're playing with others. Literally pressing 1 button with 100% GCD uptime would be better than some of the level 100s I see with like 50% downtime. Not doing anything for half the time is griefing and wasting people's time.

So yeah, I will argue that those people do not need to be catered to. Those who wanna try will try. But for those who keep using the game's mediore but passable explanations as an excuse, we should force a mandatory UI-adjustment prompt early on. Many bad players flail around not reading debuffs and casts but instead of asking how to increase their visibility, they just continue to be a liability.

That said, Strayborough was okay. It's just a really fun dungeon.

[ChrysOCE]

That's why the snipers in FT suck. They don't try to actually put in the effort in organizing and spreadsheeting and pulling their weight.

There's plenty of people in this thread who think not trying is an okay position to have, and it's not while you're playing with others. Literally pressing 1 button with 100% GCD uptime would be better than some of the level 100s I see with like 50% downtime. Not doing anything for half the time is griefing and wasting people's time.

Right, not at all that you all started calling EVERYONE who didnt sign up to the discords as snipers, regardless of any effort or skill shown. They were your spots and they were taken by "snipers". Mhmm

[Valence]

It's always amusing to read all those reactionary takes on dungeons and casual content. Pulling weights, wasting people's time. I do genuinely wonder why do you people care so much? Are you having such a miserable time playing the game that wasting a couple of minutes is infuriating? Why are you running the content in the first place if you hate it so much? Why do you get mad at people that are just there to chill and still complete the content just fine? Why don't you focus more on your own sweaty gameplay?

Is it a problem that the content doesn't ask more than Cure 1 or whatever nonsense? Sure. Probably.

But this ain't savage chief.

And yet people tend to praise PvP in this game. (I personally despise all the "crowd control.")

But going back to Strayborough, the adds just need a little orange AoE marker in front of them indicating how far they'll lunge, because I feel like that's what the encounter design is going for and not communicating effectively.

Crowd control can feel very frustrating when there is an overabundance of it, but that's absolutely not comparable to this boss at all. No stun in pvp lasts more than 2-3s, and you're free. You also have multiple tools to deal with it and nullify crowd control. You also have tactical agency whether or not you want to burn your tools to get rid of said cc if you consider that they're not immediately threatening.

I feel this comparison is extremely misinformed.

[CidHeiral]

I can see how the first boss of Strayborough could be frustrating if you're playing at high ping, but outside of that from what I've seen people usually get snatched when they try to greed a cast or some uptime. You have to prioritize getting out of the way of the little runners first.

[Mawlzy]

It's always amusing to read all those reactionary takes on dungeons and casual content. Pulling weights, wasting people's time. I do genuinely wonder why do you people care so much? Are you having such a miserable time playing the game that wasting a couple of minutes is infuriating? Why are you running the content in the first place if you hate it so much? Why do you get mad at people that are just there to chill and still complete the content just fine? Why don't you focus more on your own sweaty gameplay?

Is it a problem that the content doesn't ask more than Cure 1 or whatever nonsense? Sure. Probably.

But this ain't savage chief.



Crowd control can feel very frustrating when there is an overabundance of it, but that's absolutely not comparable to this boss at all. No stun in pvp lasts more than 2-3s, and you're free. You also have multiple tools to deal with it and nullify crowd control. You also have tactical agency whether or not you want to burn your tools to get rid of said cc if you consider that they're not immediately threatening.

I feel this comparison is extremely misinformed.

Crowd control in FL was a hot topic in 6.X with people asking for caps on the number of players it hit and/or an immune period after each hit, but the 7.2 changes ameliorated it somewhat and players who worry about such things have got better at positioning with the new ranges.

[Themarvin]

it is going the DT way, with tremendous of things... TACO groceries and more... and the content such as Forked Tower among other stuff only favor the top 1% elite people....

No they are not listening but running their own train wreck into the abyss.

[0blivion]

"top 1% elite people" spoken like someone who has never seen the breadth of player skill diversity in FT

[Altina_Orion]

"top 1% elite people" spoken like someone who has never seen the breadth of player skill diversity in FT

Yeah I've seen plenty of fairly casual players who don't run savage or ex do it and prog fine. As long as your are capable of joining a discord server you are capable of entering and giving it a try. I'm still frankly annoyed that it involves the level of coordination it does, especially if they are expecting 100 clears from players, but it truly isn't THAT difficult once you enter