@Casuals , do you think the message has gotten through?

[Valence]

The issue with Stayborough was that bullet-hell mechanics are AWFUL in this game because they are far ahead of where they appear to be. I don't have an issue with challenges in dungeons, but bullet-hell should be shelved until they can figure out how to not make the snapshots on them awful. As someone who does savage/ulti casually (no, im not a hardcore raider. I raid like 6 hours a week), this didn't challenge me in a "wow this is difficult and interesting" way, but in a "wow this is actually bullshit" way.

To rephrase this, it wasn't challenging, it was simply unfair and unfun. I can dodge orbs, but when they are like a whole yard of where they appear to be on good ping, its kinda just wtf.

It wasn't just unfair and unfun because the boss actually was designed to also make fun of you after your get hit. The add just grabs onto you and you can't do anything for ages while it carefully puts that AoE over your head, taking its sweet sweet time to hit you with it before letting you go (alive or dead). Losing complete control and agency of one's character is generally one of the worst thing you could design in a game, and it feels even worse when the game actually makes fun of you while doing it.

I feel like this stuff would have been infuriating either way, but people would have been a lot less mad about it without that middlefinger you get once you fail the mechanic.

[AmiableApkallu]

Losing complete control and agency of one's character is generally one of the worst thing you could design in a game

And yet people tend to praise PvP in this game. (I personally despise all the "crowd control.")

But going back to Strayborough, the adds just need a little orange AoE marker in front of them indicating how far they'll lunge, because I feel like that's what the encounter design is going for and not communicating effectively.

[Valence]

It's always amusing to read all those reactionary takes on dungeons and casual content. Pulling weights, wasting people's time. I do genuinely wonder why do you people care so much? Are you having such a miserable time playing the game that wasting a couple of minutes is infuriating? Why are you running the content in the first place if you hate it so much? Why do you get mad at people that are just there to chill and still complete the content just fine? Why don't you focus more on your own sweaty gameplay?

Is it a problem that the content doesn't ask more than Cure 1 or whatever nonsense? Sure. Probably.

But this ain't savage chief.

And yet people tend to praise PvP in this game. (I personally despise all the "crowd control.")

But going back to Strayborough, the adds just need a little orange AoE marker in front of them indicating how far they'll lunge, because I feel like that's what the encounter design is going for and not communicating effectively.

Crowd control can feel very frustrating when there is an overabundance of it, but that's absolutely not comparable to this boss at all. No stun in pvp lasts more than 2-3s, and you're free. You also have multiple tools to deal with it and nullify crowd control. You also have tactical agency whether or not you want to burn your tools to get rid of said cc if you consider that they're not immediately threatening.

I feel this comparison is extremely misinformed.

[Mawlzy]

It's always amusing to read all those reactionary takes on dungeons and casual content. Pulling weights, wasting people's time. I do genuinely wonder why do you people care so much? Are you having such a miserable time playing the game that wasting a couple of minutes is infuriating? Why are you running the content in the first place if you hate it so much? Why do you get mad at people that are just there to chill and still complete the content just fine? Why don't you focus more on your own sweaty gameplay?

Is it a problem that the content doesn't ask more than Cure 1 or whatever nonsense? Sure. Probably.

But this ain't savage chief.



Crowd control can feel very frustrating when there is an overabundance of it, but that's absolutely not comparable to this boss at all. No stun in pvp lasts more than 2-3s, and you're free. You also have multiple tools to deal with it and nullify crowd control. You also have tactical agency whether or not you want to burn your tools to get rid of said cc if you consider that they're not immediately threatening.

I feel this comparison is extremely misinformed.

Crowd control in FL was a hot topic in 6.X with people asking for caps on the number of players it hit and/or an immune period after each hit, but the 7.2 changes ameliorated it somewhat and players who worry about such things have got better at positioning with the new ranges.

[AmiableApkallu]

Crowd control can feel very frustrating when there is an overabundance of it, but that's absolutely not comparable to this boss at all. No stun in pvp lasts more than 2-3s, and you're free. You also have multiple tools to deal with it and nullify crowd control. You also have tactical agency whether or not you want to burn your tools to get rid of said cc if you consider that they're not immediately threatening.

I feel this comparison is extremely misinformed.

Stuns are not the only loss of agency. Binds, silences, knockbacks, draw-ins... these all exist. Each one might be only a couple seconds, but it adds up if the other team decides to focus them all at you. The cumulative effect is like a stream of bad luck with a Paralyze debuff in PvE: try to do a thing, zap, try again, zap, maybe this time, nope zap. And given the nature of PvP, there's probably something I was trying to react to or do every time I get zapped.

I find Strayborough to be far more chill by comparison. Sure, maybe I lose control, but it's not like I was really doing anything in the first place (lol, does my DPS rotation really count?).

[Mawlzy]

Stuns are not the only loss of agency. Binds, silences, knockbacks, draw-ins... these all exist. Each one might be only a couple seconds, but it adds up if the other team decides to focus them all at you. The cumulative effect is like a stream of bad luck with a Paralyze debuff in PvE: try to do a thing, zap, try again, zap, maybe this time, nope zap. And given the nature of PvP, there's probably something I was trying to react to or do every time I get zapped.

I find Strayborough to be far more chill by comparison. Sure, maybe I lose control, but it's not like I was really doing anything in the first place (lol, does my DPS rotation really count?).

Certainly not saying the current situation is perfect, but for the most part the jobs that are getting targeted with CC (tank/melee) are the ones that have the best resources to counter.

But to me the big difference is that vast variety of situations you find in PvP. Each fight is different and thus has repeatability. The only repeatability in PvE is trying again when you fail.

Also worth noting, given the ongoing dissatisfaction with healers in PvE, that healers in PvP are some of the most interesting and important jobs to play.

[AmiableApkallu]

Certainly not saying the current situation is perfect, but for the most part the jobs that are getting targeted with CC (tank/melee) are the ones that have the best resources to counter.

But to me the big difference is that vast variety of situations you find in PvP. Each fight is different and thus has repeatability. The only repeatability in PvE is trying again when you fail.

Also worth noting, given the ongoing dissatisfaction with healers in PvE, that healers in PvP are some of the most interesting and important jobs to play.

lol. I take WHM into PvP. I guess by your own admission, I don't actually have the best resources to counter crowd control? But ignoring that, what exactly are my counters?

Furthermore, if I'm playing such an important job/role, then that probably explains why it feels like the other team is throwing all their crowd control at me.

[Mawlzy]

lol. I take WHM into PvP. I guess by your own admission, I don't actually have the best resources to counter crowd control? But ignoring that, what exactly are my counters?

Furthermore, if I'm playing such an important job/role, then that probably explains why it feels like the other team is throwing all their crowd control at me.

Your primary resource/counter is range.

Most of your dangerous opponents in FL are using target nearest rather than tab. A WHM should never be the nearest to the front line.

But yeah AST and WHM will attract counter-measures if they get too close because they are such powerful jobs in the current meta.

[Lorika]

lol. I take WHM into PvP. I guess by your own admission, I don't actually have the best resources to counter crowd control? But ignoring that, what exactly are my counters?

Furthermore, if I'm playing such an important job/role, then that probably explains why it feels like the other team is throwing all their crowd control at me.

Aquaveil
Creates a barrier around self or target party member that absorbs damage equivalent to a heal of 8,000 potency.
Duration: 10s
Additional Effect: Nullifies one status affliction that can be removed by Purify
Barrier potency is doubled when successfully nullifying a status affliction.

It's work really well on a lot of status effects (personally i use it when i'm inflicted with heavy)
Don't also forget Mirace of Nature (Aka Kappa ) which is a very good CC (It also make the target lose 2500 MP, which is huge)
And Afflatus Purgation is still one of the best LB (20k damages to all ennemis in a straight line + a stun + and HP regen for all the ally)
Even Seraph Strike (the Gap Closer) is one of the best since it give a 8% mit to all the ally + instant Cure II (one of the best heal in PvP) + 3 Glave IV (which are instant)

WHM is still one of the best job in PvP.

[ChrysOCE]

lol. I take WHM into PvP. I guess by your own admission, I don't actually have the best resources to counter crowd control? But ignoring that, what exactly are my counters?

Furthermore, if I'm playing such an important job/role, then that probably explains why it feels like the other team is throwing all their crowd control at me.

Miracle of Nature and your limit break are very powerful for disrupting attacks. But I do tend to play a little closer, dipping in and out of the front line.