Forked Tower: Blood Needs A Normal Mode

[Khryseis_Astra]

Here’s a question more out of curiosity

Let’s say there was a forked normal. And let’s say this forked normal dropped sanguinite so now you aren’t hard blocked at +1. There is still the fact that the gear progression ends at +2. Forked also doesn’t have a story and doesn’t expand on OC’s non existent story

People say CLL felt like a cap off but was that because people actually liked the raid (this applies to dal as well) or was it because Bozja was fantastic at environmental storytelling, hell dalriada doesn’t contribute to bozja’s power structure at all. Like what would a hypothetical forked normal “cap off” in the zone for you. Or is it more simply not wanting to miss out on a dal quality raid

Not knowing what their plans are for the gear, getting the +2 would likely still be desirable for going into the next zone, or reclears of FTB. Or they could do the Eureka route and give the gear some special effects next time around, which would make it more desirable for me personally.

I actually did enjoy CLL/Dalriada/DRN and from what I’ve seen and heard about FTB, without the rez restrictions and mechs where one person can wipe the raid, it could be something equivalent to parts of CLL, Dalriada and DRN… you had the separate groups who had to split up and try to save more prisoners (so you’d get extra loot! lol), and you had places in all of those where Lost Actions were really useful, especially the trap detection. And more importantly, you had people dying left and right and that didn’t mean game over. Everyone was able to coordinate things in chat. I really had a good time with those and I’m upset I can’t just queue in with a bunch of people in instance and go explore the Tower.

I’m not against using discord for things, and I’m thankful that there are groups out there, because hopefully someday they can carry me through it. One, it’s hard for me to prog things I have to schedule, and then reschedule if it doesn’t work out. I learn best through constant repetition, and this doesn’t lend itself well to that. But secondly, it ruins the feel of the zone for me. How much more immersive would it feel to go up to the pavilion, put in your cipher and then you’re in a CLL/Dal/DR situation where it might be tough, there might be lots of deaths, but you eventually work together and make it through? The rez restrictions ruin that for me, the potential to wipe and have to try again next week/month/whatever ruins that for me.

[RuriStone]

Because if they're not playing for a year then arguably they are a casual player. In order to be something other than a casual player, they'd need something that is drawing their attention in the game each day for a year. Thus, I gave examples of what those things might be.
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So you're saying...I'm wrong to call them raiders when I should call them casual players? And you base that on how much they play. So you think casual players are the ones being rude and excluding other casuals from the FT raid and you're saying raiders have nothing to do with it.

this seems to be something you cooked up in your own head though because from all the other conversations going on in the forums it's already been widely accepted even by the two groups who were discussing that it's a casual Vs raider thing ... achievement hunters weren't mentioned because nobody cares.

[0blivion]

Nah, you're being intentionally obtuse. You can do FTB as a casual. The difference between the people actually doing FTB and the snipers is that the first group actively puts in the effort to organize and learn together, whereas the snipers are the type of casuals who expect to be able to leech off of other people's work.

[BedtimeBear]

"too much money"

[RuriStone]

Nah, you're being intentionally obtuse. You can do FTB as a casual. The difference between the people actually doing FTB and the snipers is that the first group actively puts in the effort to organize and learn together, whereas the snipers are the type of casuals who expect to be able to leech off of other people's work.

Again with the throwing insults at people i wonder if you're intentionally predictable.

[Jeeqbit]

So you're saying...I'm wrong to call them raiders when I should call them casual players?

You can call them raiders if you want.

What I was saying was that creating this mythical faction which just-so-happen to also be called "raiders" who gatekeep "casuals" with discord is a problem, when many of those "raiders" are casuals. For the most part, you seemed to agree that "raiders" are pretty much just normal players that mess up mechanics, so I was really just pointing out that's because they are all the same and nobody is gatekeeping since you had brought up gatekeeping.

And you base that on how much they play.

Casual by definition would mean taking breaks or not being sweaty and playing all day, so yes. So I thought for a moment, who do I know that plays the game all year round without cease? And mostly that is the collector/achievement hunter types, maybe some RPers too, not most raiders particularly. So the entire narrative that raiders gatekeep is some wild assumption that people make.

So you think casual players are the ones being rude and excluding other casuals from the FT raid and you're saying raiders have nothing to do with it.

Exactly. Plenty of the people being rude about it probably just resubbed/logged in for the patch themselves, and don't necessarily represent the leadership of a discord particularly. And just like you said, everyone messes up mechanics, even the ones you think are these "raiders", so whatever big words they're using they probably have got killed by mechanics as well.

I read after all the chaos went down in the other thread, Rinon's group still wiped later on because it was a prog group and wiping was expected. They were there to practice and learn together. Quite the opposite of demanding eachother know all the mechanics.

this seems to be something you cooked up in your own head though because from all the other conversations going on in the forums

Partially because it's going on in other conversations, yes, but you specifically brought up gatekeeping so that's why I brought it into the conversation.

it's already been widely accepted even by the two groups who were discussing that it's a casual Vs raider thing

It's not widely accepted at all. That's my point. They're all just casuals getting together on discord to clear the raid together. If any of them aren't "casual", they're probably "achievement hunters" rather than "raiders" and as we've discussed, aren't necessarily any better at mechanics or superior or anything like that.

The idea that they are somehow "better" than casuals or "gatekeep" them is just made up in people's heads.

[RuriStone]

You can call them raiders if you want.

The idea that they are somehow "better" than casuals or "gatekeep" them is just made up in people's heads.

Well originally I did call them raiders but you seemed to have a problem with it and started mansplaining definitions to me lol. When I tried to get clarification you didn't answer clearly.

You're taking my quotes out of context and dispersing the point to create a mental haze because you know you've not got an argument, each of the points that you've made wouldn't hold traction if you didn't.

[Jeeqbit]

I can assure I would explain it that way regardless of your character details and that everything is meant in the spirit of forum debate. The discussion about definitions was meant to be me just agreeing with you and adding an additional point from my own experience, so I didn't understand your responses initially. I nevertheless was just clarifying what I meant. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

I can summarize my argument very quickly though: nobody is gatekeeping and you're welcome to join FT runs via discord.

I understand there is a natural anxiety that people are gatekeeping. I had that too when I first tried to raid. I am just trying to teach people that this is something a lot us imagine, but if we join the discord runs they're welcoming. Of course there should be a normal mode, but the discords are trying to help make it easier to clear until then.

[Khryseis_Astra]

I understand there is a natural anxiety that people are gatekeeping. I had that too when I first tried to raid. I am just trying to teach people that this is something a lot us imagine, but if we join the discord runs they're welcoming. Of course there should be a normal mode, but the discords are trying to help make it easier to clear until then.

I definitely don’t have any concerns about gatekeeping personally. Especially when those groups are effectively the only way to get this kind of content done. For me, it’s just the hassle of needing to do it this way. I don’t want to have to schedule a run that currently could take hours for both instance hunting and weather waiting, maybe get to the second boss, then wipe and have to try again the next time I can find a run that works with my hectic schedule.

But really I just want that equivalent of CLL/Dal/DRN… I’m only going for field notes, TT card and the sheer fun of exploring the Tower. I don’t want to have to prog anything, I just want to go in and pick myself up off the floor however many times it takes to get through it. It’s the rez restrictions and the inability to just keep pushing through til you’re done that really makes you weigh whether the time you’re investing is going to pay off or not.

[Rizlee]

u say discord, but today i had an unfortunate event happen to me, i was in a discord where u have to sign up in advance to do FT prog, over the weeks i made it till boss 4 mostly deathless (unless someone in group causes wipes), despite that and signing up early and showing up 20 mins before the specified time, i was removed from party and replaced with someone else... they didnt really give me a valid reason but most likely they replaced me with one of their friend or maybe someone who is newer so that their ppl maybe can parse better or something i dont know, but yea this community really isnt as welcoming as it was pre endwalker and they only want u in to fill as bodies to reach their goals... and this was the final straw for me so despite me trying this is a very flawed system they made and i hope the game flops harder and goes in the trashbin, i'll definitely be unsubbing once my current sub runs out (i was already unhappy with the state of drk only raided and played for the few friends that still exist inside the game)

i dont think yoshi p or the devs will grow a brain anytime soon and things will remain stale as is