Dawntrail Doomposting Megathread

[Kozh]

I believe it's going to be another shard to be honest. It seems they are setting us up for a Shadowbringers 2.0. I know Yoshi P. also made mention of another winter-themed expansion like Heavensward was a desire. Now whether that comes to fruition, who knows?

..... why do I feel like they are trying to bait us with nostalgia (considering shb and Hw are like, top 2) after the sh*tshow that is Dawntrail.

Honestly though, I prefer if we go to ilsabard first. Kinda tired of other shard nonsense.

[yesnt]

If SE makes OC "done in a day", people will complain there is nothing to do and no reason to subscribe. If SE makes OC grindy and keep people there for a while, they are accused of trying to retain subs or of making a grind that lasts more than a day. They literally can't win. No matter what they do, players will complain about it.

Yeah, but the point is that there is just not much content. Slapping on a 500h whatever farm wouldn't solve this, it would just stretch the thin content. People are rightly complaining about the lack of things to do. Within a day or two you have indeed experienced most of the content the patch has to offer. That kinda sucks. You don't feel like you are progressing much.

[Kozh]

And my reason for putting this example was because a lot of people were saying everyone in the game was equally as unhappy about the game as on these forums. Yet, not only do I not see that in the PUGs I join on a very regular basis, but I don't even hardly see it in a large field zone with a large amount of players contributing their thoughts.

No offense, but most people won't have genuine lengthy discussion/criticim *inside* the game with strangers. Especially knowing this community reputation. Plus even if they do, they will most likely do it in private chat, which you won't be aware of. You may think you met lost of people, but it's probably just a very thiny fraction, at least not enough to draw conclusion that people who looks like having fun is actually happy with the game's state.

I mean, for example, I've been sh*t talking the game in here (forum), but if you saw me in OC messing around and goofing with other players, you would've thought I am having fun because of the game, when in reality it's because of the social interaction.

[Kaurhz]

No offense, but most people won't have genuine lengthy discussion/criticim *inside* the game with strangers. Especially knowing this community reputation. Plus even if they do, they will most likely do it in private chat, which you won't be aware of. You may think you met lost of people, but it's probably just a very thiny fraction, at least not enough to draw conclusion that people who looks like having fun is actually happy with the game's state.

I mean, for example, I've been sh*t talking the game in here (forum), but if you saw me in OC messing around and goofing with other players, you would've thought I am having fun because of the game, when in reality it's because of the social interaction.

I am the exact same to be honest.

Writing in-game doesn't exactly lend itself to productive or in-depth conversation on how good or how bad the game is beyond "I don't like it", or "I like it", or other vague remarks to that effect, and I am generally not one for making vague remarks where people are just trying to play the game, or have light-hearted discussion.

Like, not even in a closed space like FC chat am I going to do that... So, people will just naturally assume that I am just enjoying myself, whether that's by virtue of playing the game, or by virtue of not complaining about it, when realistically the opposite is true.

e.g., if a free trial player in Eureka is going to take me that they aren't upgrading because they're afraid of becoming addicted and not spending as much time on their studies... The last thing I am going to remark with is "Nothing to be excited about, game doesn't really get much better", or "Lol, you won't miss much after Shadowbringers"

[Jeeqbit]

Yeah, but the point is that there is just not much content.

We had a lot of new fun CEs added (which are individually as much work as a dungeon/raid boss) and a raid. Not to mention the MSQ in 7.2, an extreme and 4 raids. We also had various stories such as Hildibrand and the beast tribe. And cosmic if you are into that.

That's a lot for a developer to make. If you actually think that is all "not much", then you're just gonna have to accept that in order to get the amount of content you want, you'll need to play other games. Alternatively, you can repeat said content and do the grinds. Either way works.

No offense, but most people won't have genuine lengthy discussion/criticim *inside* the game with strangers.

I'm not expecting lengthy conversations. Just off comments that reflect sentiment or mood. Plus, I actually do get pretty social with people in many cases to where they would be comfortable discussing things like that.

[yesnt]

We had a lot of new fun CEs added (which are individually as much work as a dungeon/raid boss) and a raid. Not to mention the MSQ in 7.2, an extreme and 4 raids. We also had various stories such as Hildibrand and the beast tribe. And cosmic if you are into that.

Yeah but it almost took a year into the expansion to release most of these ...

[Kranel_San]

Yeah but it almost took a year into the expansion to release most of these ...

Which is a real shame. If it wasn't for mare and mods, this game would have leaked out players just like WoW did years ago.

[Gwenkatsu]

Since you're new, my advice is this. No matter what SE says or does, it won't be received well in this forum, so being here can sour your mood and make you feel negative about the game when you otherwise wouldn't be.

Haha, thanks for your concern. I might be new to this forum, not to gaming forums per se. And I don't need the forums to sour my mood, DT itself already did a good job on that part.

If SE makes OC grindy and keep people there for a while, they are accused of trying to retain subs or of making a grind that lasts more than a day. They literally can't win.

I read through the "OC sucks" threads, and the vast majority of people do not complain about the grind, but about its randomness. Which I think is a very valid criticism - when you play with friends or your SO, and you yourself finish the grind in 10 hours, while the others just got 5% of what they need in the same time, there is no way this will make any of you feel good. Which should have been clear from the beginning, and therefore never been in the game.

Brushing this sort of valid criticism aside with a simple "players complain about the grind" sounds dishonest in my ears.

[Jeeqbit]

I read through the "OC sucks" threads, and the vast majority of people do not complain about the grind, but about its randomness. Which I think is a very valid criticism - when you play with friends or your SO, and you yourself finish the grind in 10 hours, while the others just got 5% of what they need in the same time, there is no way this will make any of you feel good. Which should have been clear from the beginning, and therefore never been in the game.

Brushing this sort of valid criticism aside with a simple "players complain about the grind" sounds dishonest in my ears.

I'm not dismissing that part of it and I've also said that I like fixed grinds as well, but what is also true is that the Demiatma grind itself is not really that problematic, because you just farm for a while and you will get it. I could compare it to Heavensward's pre-nerf where FATE farming was some of the most social content in that expansion, or Bozja's where you could farm FATEs instead of Alliance Raids (I did FATEs because I couldn't be bothered doing Alliance Raids). And it was a very comparable grind to this, except it required twice as many! The RNG was actually similar for me personally, because sometimes I'd get none for ages and sometimes a few close together.

Moreover, you gain lots of other things while farming that will take longer than the grind: Knowledge, Phantom Job Experience, Silver Coins to buy all the rewards including OC gear. In the open world: Shared FATE ranks, Gemstone rewards, Gemstone Vouchers and job levels.

In order to assist formulating an opinion on this, I went to the trouble of collecting data separately for CEs and FATEs, recording the rates and asking others.

What I see as a problematic level of RNG:

• Minion drop rates from dungeons. Because this is clearly about 1-2% chance per 12-20 minute run. You can do it 100 times and not even see it (that's 100 full days of attempts). I literally have done this for some dungeon mininions (I gave up after years and started buying them).
• Extreme mount droprates pre-nerf, because they seem to similarly be a 1-2% drop rate. I've met many people that have done over 100, sometimes closer to 200 or more, and not got it.
• Special Items in Eureka. This includes rare gear drops such as the Speed Ring, Copycat Bulb (layered RNG) and items that upgrade your elemental wheel. You could try to get these for years. It actually did take me years farming treasure in Pyros (on and off) to get Eldthurs. I gave up on Copycat Bulb and bought it and all the Eureka upgrade items despite trying for years.

The problem with those things is not necessarily just the droprate, but the time it takes (12-20 minutes) or the spawn rate (once per 3 hour session if that). So in the case of Demiatma:

• CEs take about ~5 minutes but the droprate is amazing.
• FATEs take about a few seconds if others are there, up to a minute otherwise...
• You can force the spawn rate to be constant outside OC or afk/do other things until a CE in a relevant area appears.

Overall, I'm fine if the RNG is such that it's not like the examples I gave, and it's not.

[Voidmage]

We had a lot of new fun CEs added (which are individually as much work as a dungeon/raid boss) and a raid. Not to mention the MSQ in 7.2, an extreme and 4 raids. We also had various stories such as Hildibrand and the beast tribe. And cosmic if you are into that.

That's a lot for a developer to make. If you actually think that is all "not much", then you're just gonna have to accept that in order to get the amount of content you want, you'll need to play other games. Alternatively, you can repeat said content and do the grinds. Either way works.

While it’s often used as a meme, they aren’t just some Indi devs.
SE is one of the biggest video game developers and FF14 is more or less in the top three of MMO’s and direct rival to WoW.
Hildibrand and OC were also something we almost waited a year for.
Even the most positive voices in the community point out that if you weren’t a raider you were waiting extremely long to get something.
There is a reason you saw so many positive voices regarding OC despite its obvious weaknesses (I also have fun there still) or people being excited when cosmic arrived. Because all the nonraiders were seriously starved for content.

You really are the only one who thinks fates and Beasttribes are enough content, sorry for sounding rude.
And at the start of 7.2 we even only really had the MSQ!

We can talk about that the devs for this game are probably held low or are too small and I would agree with that but I think pity is the wrong thing and just gives an excuse for SE to not give these devs more.
SE is a huge company and it’s Yoshida’s job to get the funds and manpower from them.