People don’t realize how easy it is to get into raiding in this game

[TheInsomniac13]

Those are just another type of mechanics; however, ultimately, it's still reduced to a timeline. BTW, in M8s there is such a mechanic where the correct execution will offer damage done to a construct (can't elaborate due to spoilers, I guess)

I still fail to understand why DPS checks are a bad thing. It's the simplest form of: your rotation is bad, and/or you made enough mistakes not to earn a clear. A clear has to be earned. Consistency, being able to focus, and working together are not bad things. Not everyone who has 0 clue how to play their class or execute mechanics correctly should be granted the clear.

All your suggestions do is promote mediocrity, which already exists to a very great extent.

I'm not saying DPS checks are bad. My suggestion is to make them more common but not use them as game enders, but a machanik to chane the fight to or against your favour.
The potential I see in this game is more interactivety with the battle stages and dungeons. Giving you the actual feeling you are fighting an enemy placed in this world and you have to get creative to beat him.
As of right now battles are and outwordly fight on floatin platforms most often then not and everything is. Stack, spead, don't stand in the glowy bits and match with same or oposide colore what ever it is right now we do not tell you eat shit and do better next time.
Killing you with an mechanik you have no way of knowing in advance is not hard gamedesign it is cheap.
Boss fights right now feel like a bore were the healthbare is nothing but a clock you wait out.
Deam I actualy enjoy if I have players who suck at there rotation or keep dying atlest then I got something needing me to engage and breaking the monotonie

[Kohashi]

I'm not saying DPS checks are bad. My suggestion is to make them more common but not use them as game enders, but a machanik to chane the fight to or against your favour.
The potential I see in this game is more interactivety with the battle stages and dungeons. Giving you the actual feeling you are fighting an enemy placed in this world and you have to get creative to beat him.
As of right now battles are and outwordly fight on floatin platforms most often then not and everything is. Stack, spead, don't stand in the glowy bits and match with same or oposide colore what ever it is right now we do not tell you eat shit and do better next time.
Killing you with an mechanik you have no way of knowing in advance is not hard gamedesign it is cheap.
Boss fights right now feel like a bore were the healthbare is nothing but a clock you wait out.
Deam I actualy enjoy if I have players who suck at there rotation or keep dying atlest then I got something needing me to engage and breaking the monotonie

While the tier is more complex than the previous tier was, they introduced Damage Down as a form of punishment instead of Body checks. (also valid in FRU)
While you can continue the fight and practice, you will simply not brute force the clear if enough people collect those.

Don't stand in bad can be said for every single MMO under the sun that currently exists or will come into existence. What are you even asking for at this point?

As for creative ways to beat the boss? Like how? Provide feasible examples? I also dream that one day I will be able to pull my frying pan in savage and beat the boss to death with that. But let's be a bit serious..lol

The reason why you don't know the mechanic beforehand is to allow you to discover and to give you an incentive to discover and master/ overcome the hurdle. Why is it cheap?

[TheInsomniac13]

While the tier is more complex than the previous tier was, they introduced Damage Down as a form of punishment instead of Body checks. (also valid in FRU)
While you can continue the fight and practice, you will simply not brute force the clear if enough people collect those.

Don't stand in bad can be said for every single MMO under the sun that currently exists or will come into existence. What are you even asking for at this point?

As for creative ways to beat the boss? Like how? Provide feasible examples? I also dream that one day I will be able to pull my frying pan in savage and beat the boss to death with that. But let's be a bit serious..lol

The reason why you don't know the mechanic beforehand is to allow you to discover and to give you an incentive to discover and master/ overcome the hurdle. Why is it cheap?

I think I gave good mechanik examoles without typin an entire boss fight scrip which would take more words then the forums allow in a post.

I also do not claim that a total removal of damage zones needs to happen but an over reliance of them brought us to a point were people make fun of it beeing Dance Dance Revolution and the only way the devs seem to know to make that more difficult is making is more hectic.

In terms of bad mechaniks. In a good design you get to expirience the mechanik first in a weaker stat revealing the tells of it so when it later comes in full force you have a chance to avoid it.
And FF14 indeed do's this every now and then.

But then we have mechaniks like Containment Bay Z1T9 zuvran.
The player gets markt with an element either fire or ice and points apear of sayed elements. Nothing in this fight indicate if you have to stack with the same element or the oposide to negate it.
And if more then 1 player messes the mechanik up the raidwide damage often floors everyone but the tanks.

[Kohashi]

I think I gave good mechanik examoles without typin an entire boss fight scrip which would take more words then the forums allow in a post.

I also do not claim that a total removal of damage zones needs to happen but an over reliance of them brought us to a point were people make fun of it beeing Dance Dance Revolution and the only way the devs seem to know to make that more difficult is making is more hectic.

In terms of bad mechaniks. In a good design you get to expirience the mechanik first in a weaker stat revealing the tells of it so when it later comes in full force you have a chance to avoid it.
And FF14 indeed do's this every now and then.

But then we have mechaniks like Containment Bay Z1T9 zuvran.
The player gets markt with an element either fire or ice and points apear of sayed elements. Nothing in this fight indicate if you have to stack with the same element or the oposide to negate it.
And if more then 1 player messes the mechanik up the raidwide damage often floors everyone but the tanks.

A lot of people say stupid shit that makes no sense all the time, it doesn't mean you have to keep regurgitating this whole DDR nonsense as it's some sort of mantra. The "dance" exists in every single game, in one form or another.

As for Zurvan or any other boss, you stand in the wrong spot, take damage down/die, and you learn to do better next pull. Some older content does not have clear indicators, while the new fights do.

This reminds me of how our tank got deleted in A8s (Blind + MINE) because one of the boss's attacks was a shared TB that was not telegraphed in such a way, and he took it solo. We laughed and learned how to do it properly next pull.

[TheInsomniac13]

A lot of people say stupid shit that makes no sense all the time, it doesn't mean you have to keep regurgitating this whole DDR nonsense as it's some sort of mantra. The "dance" exists in every single game, in one form or another.

As for Zurvan or any other boss, you stand in the wrong spot, take damage down/die, and you learn to do better next pull. Some older content does not have clear indicators, while the new fights do.

This reminds me of how our tank got deleted in A8s (Blind + MINE) because one of the boss's attacks was a shared TB that was not telegraphed in such a way, and he took it solo. We laughed and learned how to do it properly next pull.

When Bosshealth feels like a timer and mechsniks play of a script like clockwork then dodging thems becomes coreographed. There are no inportant decisions or tactics follow the steps and push you rotation buttons. Which at this poit have become so waterd down a macro could do them.

I think there also is a big misunderstanding. I talk about the overall design of the gsme while I feel your viewpoint is soli on High tire raids.
And I cannot judge the design of these because I do not care for them.

I care for the rest of the game. And by own admitens of the developer the current game design phylosophy is to make the design of high tire raids easyer.
They wash down 99% of the game to "improve" 1% if it and many players do not even engage with this %

I for one cleared all ARR Extreams via Partyfinder
And most of Heavensward
And the first Coils of Bahamut level synced.

And quite frankly I couldent stand them and hate to see design choices be made affecting the entire game even old content to make it "easy" designing a think most don't even want to engage with.

In order to demand money something has to be first worth your time and quite frankly... FF 14 has hit the point were it is worth neither.

[Amarande]

I still fail to understand why DPS checks are a bad thing. It's the simplest form of: your rotation is bad, and/or you made enough mistakes not to earn a clear. A clear has to be earned. Consistency, being able to focus, and working together are not bad things. Not everyone who has 0 clue how to play their class or execute mechanics correctly should be granted the clear.

If only it was that simple, but in practice, it's just a wee bit more complicated than that.

Your own skill, for instance, doesn't matter unless you can find 7 others that also meet the bar. This is a real hassle these days. It doesn't matter if you're good enough to join the likes of Lucrezia if you had the opportunity, if the other people in the party are biffing things you're out of luck to some or other degree, often enough so to make the whole endeavor moot.

Then we add how fast players move on in this game, vis a vis the gearing system. In NA at least, the norm is more or less, get your clear, and then lock yourself in the reclear conclave with others that also have, not giving anyone else the time of day until they eke out their own credentials elsewhere. As a result, most of the overperformers are gone after a week or two (for EX, often by the time workers get home on patch day).

In most games, that would be patched over to a useful degree by the fact that you've been gearing up. Not so in FFXIV even patches, where the only people that get access to any 760 pieces are the early rainmakers that already moved on. Everyone else gets one tome piece every week or two, which barely moves the needle compared to the deterioration of the grouping pool. (You can't have a full set of weekly tome gear until the 12th week of the tier, even with the lowered cost of the mainhand)

In other words, the only people that get any kind of leg up are the folks that don't need it and are only going to be using it for THOSE sites or for the Ultimate, if that tier even gets an Ultimate (we have never had more than two per xpac, and sometimes only one).

SO

This would be spot on, if gear came at a rate commensurate with the falloff in skills. It does not. The odd patch is far too late for the cavalry to arrive, especially with how often people note the disappointingly slim pickings that non-hardcore players receive to do meanwhile lately.

This would be spot on, if it was just YOUR skill that counted. It does not.

This would be spot on, if the bar wasn't honestly a little too high these days (we've literally had fights like launch day P8S where the bar was questionable even if you were perfect at the game). Unfortunately it is. The bar has gone from "smarter than the average bear" (and yes, I will concede there are plenty of players that aren't) to "you need to be just about perfect" like we've slipped back into the 80s almost).

The way buffs interact in FFXIV's two minute system makes the last two interact even more harshly, too.

[Valence]

99% of MMOs have bosses with scripted mechanics.

Some Bosses are on a timeline, while others are based on the boss's HP. Stop vomiting the same stupid nonsense about DDR and how SE needs to completely reinvent the wheel. A wheel that cannot be reinvented because it works this way for a reason.

Sir? DDR is one thing, scripted encounters another. I don't think the post you're replying to is having a problem with the latter?

I think there also is a big misunderstanding. I talk about the overall design of the gsme while I feel your viewpoint is soli on High tire raids.
And I cannot judge the design of these because I do not care for them.

Those are a lot worse, actually, for a simple reason: since the game is mostly about DDR, then it comes by logic that the way to make encounters more challenging is to render execution a lot stricter, which then admits a lot less solutions to get away with the mechanic, where everything has to be resolved to the millimeter by each of the party members at once. In a lot of cases, if a mistake happens, it's enough to cause an instant wipe (which is the core of every ultimate fight for example, they do not tolerate mistakes much, savage a little more). I can safely affirm that comparing savages from back in SB with what we have now since ShB/EW, we used to have more solutions to mechanics. Especially during HW/ARR because encounters were designed after another paradigm that was a lot less rigid, so there is also a clear design direction that SE has been going toward at work as well.

In casual content there is a lot of ways to still get randomness, because there isn't a need for precise raidplans and strats to solve mechanics. It's generally about dodging things and adjusting or winging it, and this on its own creates a lot more organic encounters than savage because the people you play with will also be a lot more unpredictable as well. Still more DDR than ever, especially when looking at bosses like Vanguard, or Luigi's Mansion.

[Cubester]

99% of MMOs have bosses with scripted mechanics.

99% of MMOs have scripted mechanics that don’t suck.

Stop vomiting the same stupid nonsense about DDR and how SE needs to completely reinvent the wheel.

No.

A wheel that cannot be reinvented because it works this way for a reason.

The reason being SE couldn’t design a fun combat encounter if their lives depended on it.

[Kandraxx]

While the tier is more complex than the previous tier was, they introduced Damage Down as a form of punishment instead of Body checks. (also valid in FRU)
While you can continue the fight and practice, you will simply not brute force the clear if enough people collect those.

Don't stand in bad can be said for every single MMO under the sun that currently exists or will come into existence. What are you even asking for at this point?

As for creative ways to beat the boss? Like how? Provide feasible examples? I also dream that one day I will be able to pull my frying pan in savage and beat the boss to death with that. But let's be a bit serious..lol

The reason why you don't know the mechanic beforehand is to allow you to discover and to give you an incentive to discover and master/ overcome the hurdle. Why is it cheap?

Go and play WoW raids, absorb the raid instance's atmosphere, the boss designs, the mechanics designs and then come back and honestly tell people that this game doesn't suck. Ulduar would be a great starting point. You obviously never played a single good game in your life and it's not other people's fault that you desperately try to live in FFXIV, nor does it change reality.

[Kohashi]

Go and play WoW raids, absorb the raid instance's atmosphere, the boss designs, the mechanics designs and then come back and honestly tell people that this game doesn't suck. Ulduar would be a great starting point. You obviously never played a single good game in your life and it's not other people's fault that you desperately try to live in FFXIV, nor does it change reality.

Wow also has the dance everyone is crying about. Sure, there is other stuff to do, but ultimately, there is still a timeline. There is still sit here and let it resolve.

My dude, you cannot give WoW as an example because FF14 is a casual WOW copy, and even Yoshi-P admitted to it. Also, if you are burned out and you think WoW has the design you are looking for, go play WoW and stop crying in these forums.