People don’t realize how easy it is to get into raiding in this game

[Mawlzy]

For that matter, we can't just blame the "WoW exodus" on all of our toxicity because those folks left just before or right after Dawntrail, so this is nigh-100% FF14's own community saying and acting this way.

The causal versus hardcore discussion over Chaotic was an especially big eye-opener and instead of being the "bridge" Square-Enix tried to prop up as it, it ended up widening the chasm more than ever on just how much of the playerbase doesn't actually like to play together.

The friction Chaotic created within the player base was completely predictable, and perhaps the most damaging decision SQEX has made recently in terms of dividing players and revealing divisions.

Even players who liked the raid seem mostly frustrated by the implementation.

[Voidmage]

The friction Chaotic created within the player base was completely predictable, and perhaps the most damaging decision SQEX has made recently in terms of dividing players and revealing divisions.

Even players who liked the raid seem mostly frustrated by the implementation.

Which is sad because the whole thing actually was really fun.

The responsibility jump in phase two and the absolutely horrible PF recruiting progress (they really need to fix PF so it doesn’t break down if someone leaves) made the whole thing a nightmare in PF.
The content creators downplaying everything didn’t really help (and regarding it as the big thing that would save the game in their bubble).

The biggest problem of chaotic though and what was really oil in the fire between the two factions of casual and raiding:
That raid came at the absolute worst time when one part of the playerbase was already feeling completely left out for a time then.
Savage, ultimate and chaotic back to back without anything for the other players and the later having FOMO for a pretty beloved hairstyle was bound to be a disaster.

I really hope they do another chaotic after they really think long about the feedback.
I truly think that thing can become a bridge but it needs fine tuning and a much needed qol of PF.

Personally I would do the whole thing more like phase 1 and phase 3 and less phase 2.
That way you can put it into the duty finder and make it more accessible and long lasting (and while your at it, add a variant dungeon roulette).

[Ardeth]

Which is sad because the whole thing actually was really fun.

The responsibility jump in phase two and the absolutely horrible PF recruiting progress (they really need to fix PF so it doesn’t break down if someone leaves) made the whole thing a nightmare in PF.
The content creators downplaying everything didn’t really help (and regarding it as the big thing that would save the game in their bubble).

The biggest problem of chaotic though and what was really oil in the fire between the two factions of casual and raiding:
That raid came at the absolute worst time when one part of the playerbase was already feeling completely left out for a time then.
Savage, ultimate and chaotic back to back without anything for the other players and the later having FOMO for a pretty beloved hairstyle was bound to be a disaster.

I really hope they do another chaotic after they really think long about the feedback.
I truly think that thing can become a bridge but it needs fine tuning and a much needed qol of PF.

Personally I would do the whole thing more like phase 1 and phase 3 and less phase 2.
That way you can put it into the duty finder and make it more accessible and long lasting (and while your at it, add a variant dungeon roulette).

Honestly, I see it being abandoned like Varient Dungeons. I never did it. The requirements were too steep and I honestly don't like raiding. So for me, it was a giant waste of time. I was never going to do it even if you rolled out the red carpet for me.

The same with variants. You did the 12 paths and that was it. It wasn't sustainable content. None of it ever is. Tome grinding has a small window before it's better to wait for the next tier and outside of Ultimates there isn't content that is completely locked out to me. So what's the point? I don't even like those ugly ass weapons anyway so it's not pushing me to get good. Honestly, nothing would.

[Valence]

Which is sad because the whole thing actually was really fun.

The responsibility jump in phase two and the absolutely horrible PF recruiting progress (they really need to fix PF so it doesn’t break down if someone leaves) made the whole thing a nightmare in PF.
The content creators downplaying everything didn’t really help (and regarding it as the big thing that would save the game in their bubble).

The biggest problem of chaotic though and what was really oil in the fire between the two factions of casual and raiding:
That raid came at the absolute worst time when one part of the playerbase was already feeling completely left out for a time then.
Savage, ultimate and chaotic back to back without anything for the other players and the later having FOMO for a pretty beloved hairstyle was bound to be a disaster.

I really hope they do another chaotic after they really think long about the feedback.
I truly think that thing can become a bridge but it needs fine tuning and a much needed qol of PF.

Personally I would do the whole thing more like phase 1 and phase 3 and less phase 2.
That way you can put it into the duty finder and make it more accessible and long lasting (and while your at it, add a variant dungeon roulette).

I agree except that P1 and P3 were the same boring sludge, and the only thing I actually appreciated was phase 2.
Just remove those stupid body checks, they're the reason the friction reached ludicrous levels in the first place. There was other issues with the swap that was too rigid in implementation and often meant that it wasnt much recoverable when messed up, which is a shame because the adjustment potential that arose out of it was great. Missed opportunity if anything.

[Voidmage]

The requirements were too steep and I honestly don't like raiding. So for me, it was a giant waste of time. I was never going to do it even if you rolled out the red carpet for me.

The same with variants. You did the 12 paths and that was it. It wasn't sustainable content. None of it ever is. Tome grinding has a small window before it's better to wait for the next tier and outside of Ultimates there isn't content that is completely locked out to me. So what's the point? I don't even like those ugly ass weapons anyway so it's not pushing me to get good. Honestly, nothing would.

Which is fine.
No one forces you to do that raid.
That’s why I said while fun it was probably the wrong thing at the wrong time.
Nevertheless it was a good raid itself (outside the stupid body checks) for those who like raiding outside savage and want a bit more than normal.
I don’t see it being abandoned (I hope not).
Variant is also fun content in itself but it came at the time of EW that was full of “solo play the MMO” and its biggest problem was actually the steep jump in difficulty which was not what people were expecting not wanting originally.
But from the fun factor I still do them from time to time.

I agree except that P1 and P3 were the same boring sludge, and the only thing I actually appreciated was phase 2.
Just remove those stupid body checks, they're the reason the friction reached ludicrous levels in the first place. There was other issues with the swap that was too rigid in implementation and often meant that it wasnt much recoverable when messed up, which is a shame because the adjustment potential that arose out of it was great. Missed opportunity if anything.

What I liked with P1 and P3 was the feeling of chaotic.
I think if they actually doubled down on the “mixing of mechanics” and randomness that could be it.

I agree with the body checks but honestly I would do completely away with things like towers in auch a raid.
They are such a boring and overstayed mechanic by this point and tend to amplify the body checks problem.
I think the swaps could stay but I would do them fixed with entire alliances swapping or something like the Alexander raids (I don’t remember which one it was that pulled random players to fight the adds) and absolutely do away with PvP mechanics like the tiles.
But yes I agree. Missed opportunity.

I truly think if they actually had taken a step back and turned their savage fetish a bit down this raid could have been fun for more people.

[TheInsomniac13]

As far as I understand MMO design a succesfull longliving MMO has to present different content to appeal to an selected groupe of People, thinks like PvP, PvE, Crafting, exploration, story, Housing etc.etc. Every player will feel drawn to different aspects of the game. And frocing this groupe to mix when is rarly and option. For example an player of PvE will very likely leave your game when they learen that every zone is forced PvP and every time they venture out they will be forced to be hunted by other players. Yes there will be a big groupe that likes PvP and PvE and love this design choice... but every PvEler who is not into PvP will hate it and leave the game.

Here how I see FF 14 right now. It is one big cakes which is supposed to give every content lover an equal slice of the cake... but every expansion the Raid slice get´s bigger and bigger, the slice for the story enjoyers has it´s entire toping missing and in an atemted to fix is just smothers frosting all over and the ones wo enjoyed gameplay no matter how small the slice has gotten at this point... saw the Devs come over take another cut out of our piece and shoving it over to the Raiders.

[Cubester]

It's not even about the entry requirements for me. SE could give me all BiS gear, fully melded and for free for all I care. As long as combat encounters in this game are what they are (DDR), I have less than zero interest in doing them.

I've recently played catch-up through the story and I've been forced to do all of the dungeons and trials since Endwalker, and it pains me to say I haven't enjoyed myself in any of them. And those are just the story related ones, mind you.
This game is such a dreadful experience when it comes to dungeons and trials that I only do them once when required and never touch them again afterwards if it can be helped. There is no chance of me having any interest in raiding.

[Kohashi]

It's not even about the entry requirements for me. SE could give me all BiS gear, fully melded and for free for all I care. As long as combat encounters in this game are what they are (DDR), I have less than zero interest in doing them.

I've recently played catch-up through the story and I've been forced to do all of the dungeons and trials since Endwalker, and it pains me to say I haven't enjoyed myself in any of them. And those are just the story related ones, mind you.
This game is such a dreadful experience when it comes to dungeons and trials that I only do them once when required and never touch them again afterwards if it can be helped. There is no chance of me having any interest in raiding.

99% of MMOs have bosses with scripted mechanics.

Some Bosses are on a timeline, while others are based on the boss's HP. Stop vomiting the same stupid nonsense about DDR and how SE needs to completely reinvent the wheel. A wheel that cannot be reinvented because it works this way for a reason.

[TheInsomniac13]

99% of MMOs have bosses with scripted mechanics.

Some Bosses are on a timeline, while others are based on the boss's HP. Stop vomiting the same stupid nonsense about DDR and how SE needs to completely reinvent the wheel. A wheel that cannot be reinvented because it works this way for a reason.

Multiple targetable zones on a boss to disable or weaken certin attacks
Interaktable zones in tha battle stage to creat covers from attacks or hurt the boss if used right.
DPS checks which do not end the battle but change the enviroment to you favore if succedet or to your detremint if failed.
No oneshot kill mechanics if failed. Rather with every failed mechanik the boss get's buffed and attack hurt more for a time.
While if you succed at thechaniks the boss could z. B. Start stressing out ending in a slip up which gives you an oportunety for hughe amounts of damage.

Wow look at that I just reinvented the wheel you sayed could not be done.

This shit already is in game in some way shape or form it laies rotting in older content but designing battles with that in mind would take actual effort by the devs.

[Kohashi]

Multiple targetable zones on a boss to disable or weaken certin attacks
Interaktable zones in tha battle stage to creat covers from attacks or hurt the boss if used right.
DPS checks which do not end the battle but change the enviroment to you favore if succedet or to your detremint if failed.
No oneshot kill mechanics if failed. Rather with every failed mechanik the boss get's buffed and attack hurt more for a time.
While if you succed at thechaniks the boss could z. B. Start stressing out ending in a slip up which gives you an oportunety for hughe amounts of damage.

Wow look at that I just reinvented the wheel you sayed could not be done.

This shit already is in game in some way shape or form it laies rotting in older content but designing battles with that in mind would take actual effort by the devs.

Those are just another type of mechanics; however, ultimately, it's still reduced to a timeline. BTW, in M8s there is such a mechanic where the correct execution will offer damage done to a construct (can't elaborate due to spoilers, I guess)

I still fail to understand why DPS checks are a bad thing. It's the simplest form of: your rotation is bad, and/or you made enough mistakes not to earn a clear. A clear has to be earned. Consistency, being able to focus, and working together are not bad things. Not everyone who has 0 clue how to play their class or execute mechanics correctly should be granted the clear.

All your suggestions do is promote mediocrity, which already exists to a very great extent.