They are gutting Black Mage even more in 7.2

[User202503201232]

Having a cast time longer than the global GCD for the same ability is, as far as I'm aware, an issue unique to Black Mage. It makes the job feel unresponsive and unpleasant to play, and runs in direct opposition to the standard set with every other combat job in the game. Black Mage NOT being a weave-heavy job makes it different in a way I genuinely appreciate, and should absolutely be the job's core gameplay identity. Fire IV feels satisfying to land, until you realise you clipped the GCD through no fault of your own.

That's what makes instant casts on black mage meaningful since swift and triple are best used on F4 or other long casts.

Without cast times being longer than the GCD the decision space for when to use swift and triple collapse into one singular dimension - to use it for uptime. This gutted an entire dimension of complexity and thinking. And when there is only one dimension there is also zero trade off.

[ElysiumDragon]

That's what makes instant casts on black mage meaningful since swift and triple are best used on F4 or other long casts.

Without cast times being longer than the GCD the decision space for when to use swift and triple collapse into one singular dimension - to use it for uptime. This gutted an entire dimension of complexity and thinking. And when there is only one dimension there is also zero trade off.

I'd argue that Jank isn't 'complexity', and agree with what someone else here said about the difference between 'funk', which gives a job identity, and 'jank', which harms the identity of the job. Black Mage having awkward cast times doesn't 'define' the job, it makes it unpleasant to play. Current Tillana doesn't give Dancer 'complexity', it ruins a core aspect of gauge management by punishing the player for things outside of their control.

[Supersnow845]

I'd argue that Jank isn't 'complexity', and agree with what someone else here said about the difference between 'funk', which gives a job identity, and 'jank', which harms the identity of the job. Black Mage having awkward cast times doesn't 'define' the job, it makes it unpleasant to play. Current Tillana doesn't give Dancer 'complexity', it ruins a core aspect of gauge management by punishing the player for things outside of their control.

Well that’s the thing. How do you decide what’s Jank and what isn’t. I don’t see why you think longer casts than recasts is Jank. You haven’t explained what’s wrong with it. “It feels unresponsive” why? The recast being shorter than the cast only comes into play with triplecast. Are the reverse aetherhue combo spells janky because they are long as well

What makes Jank in the first place

[Mikey_R]

It helps if we can define what "clunky" even means.

I've heard old PLD defined as clunky, SCH Energy Drain, Kaiten, long cast times, cast times in general, every gap closer. What counts as clunky and not? And within that definition, why would X mechanic count as clunky?

I can only comment on Paladin, but there were a couple of things that were starting to bug me. The first is the DoT when it came to downtime. Since every instance of Goring Blade was buffed (Blade of Valor was essentially a buffed Goring Blade), if there was downtime where you couldn't reapply it, you were essentially screwed. Boss comes back, you want to apply Goring Blade, but your FoF isn't ready, misaligning things and/or pushing your rotation back, potentially misaligning with the 2 minute raid window etc. Paladin's rigid rotation and reliance on that DoT wasn't helping. This is one of the reasons why I prefer new Paladin, because it offers more flexibility to the rotation. Though I probably would have continued to play Paladin regardless.

Another pain point for me was the fact the optimal rotation had you dropping a Sword Oath stack so that you didn't drift from the 2 minute window too much. To me, that is not intuitive at all because, why would you NOT use it? It was something that was in a weird spot and would have only been worse if we had the current Sword Oath combo back on Old Paladin.

Well that’s the thing. How do you decide what’s Jank and what isn’t. I don’t see why you think longer casts than recasts is Jank. You haven’t explained what’s wrong with it. “It feels unresponsive” why? The recast being shorter than the cast only comes into play with triplecast. Are the reverse aetherhue combo spells janky because they are long as well

What makes Jank in the first place

I do not think it is the long cast in general, it is the fact the cast time is longer than the GCD. Currently, Fire 4 at base is 2.8 seconds on a 2.5 second GCD. Compare that to Pictomancer's Subtractive Aetherhue spells, which are 2.3 second cast, but have a GCD of 3.3 seconds. In Black Mage's case, the cast finishes after the GCD has finished and in Pictomancer's case, the cast finished before the GCD is finished and allows a weave window.

I do not have an issue with Black Mage's cast times on Fire 4, what I do worry about is the now abundance of movement it is going to have with more Triple/Swiftcast usage available.

[Azurarok]

I do not think it is the long cast in general, it is the fact the cast time is longer than the GCD. Currently, Fire 4 at base is 2.8 seconds on a 2.5 second GCD. Compare that to Pictomancer's Subtractive Aetherhue spells, which are 2.3 second cast, but have a GCD of 3.3 seconds. In Black Mage's case, the cast finishes after the GCD has finished and in Pictomancer's case, the cast finished before the GCD is finished and allows a weave window.

Why is that optimization step jank? Weighing triple/swiftcast for the speed gain they give cast time > GCD casts as opposed to using it purely for movement is a pretty reasonable trade-off to have to consider, much like damaging gap closers.

[Auro_Seldaris]

I'd argue that Jank isn't 'complexity', and agree with what someone else here said about the difference between 'funk', which gives a job identity, and 'jank', which harms the identity of the job. Black Mage having awkward cast times doesn't 'define' the job, it makes it unpleasant to play. Current Tillana doesn't give Dancer 'complexity', it ruins a core aspect of gauge management by punishing the player for things outside of their control.

I'm sorry it makes it "unfun" for you, personally, to play. Please, ignore the fact that it's my main and I love it dearly as is. What do I , a BLM main since I started playing in Heavensward, matter? What does the class fantasy of having to trade cast times for superior damage, matter at all? It's all about YOUR personal feelings about a job you don't even main, and Yoshida should piss my goodwill and love for it away just to satisfy your selfish needs. Ignore the fact that I enjoy working within its limitations, ingnore that I love it and get the biggest rush when I finally understand a fight and learn the exact moments to use my abilities to tap-dance around the boss, evade its attacks and STILL get to keep my casts rolling. Please continue with your egotistical self-centered desires. Please destroy it, instead of just acknowledging it's not for you personally.

WoW gets expansions that actually expand the game's content and core systems, adding new systems and features and shaking up the status quo every time. They even get WoW Classic, in multiple flavors, to boot.

Meanwhile, I apparently registered for Final Fantasy XIV: Lowest Common Denominator Edition.

[yesnt]

Please continue with your egotistical self-centered desires. Please destroy it, instead of just acknowledging it's not for you personally.

I remember these exact same discussion when they announced the destruction of Astro. You are right. People who do not want to play the job because they dislike it for what it is should just... not play it. I am sorry they are messing up your main job too. All we can really do is sit and watch our favorite game turn into a graveyard of the things we used to enjoy since the devs don't care. I assume that all the job gutting is supposed to make their jobs easier and therefor optimize profits. Idk. I am just sad about all this.

[Auro_Seldaris]

I remember these exact same discussion when they announced the destruction of Astro. You are right. People who do not want to play the job because they dislike it for what it is should just... not play it. I am sorry they are messing up your main job too. All we can really do is sit and watch our favorite game turn into a graveyard of the things we used to enjoy since the devs don't care. I assume that all the job gutting is supposed to make their jobs easier and therefor optimize profits. Idk. I am just sad about all this.

Believe me, I feel that pain. AST was my original main healer job. I loved managing the cards, but it was killed by raidbrain "MUH OPTIMIZATION"

I lowkey wish raiders would go away. SE just caters to them and they convince SE to optimize the fun and challenge out of literally everything.

[SubmarineAlt]

Believe me, I feel that pain. AST was my original main healer job. I loved managing the cards, but it was killed by raidbrain "MUH OPTIMIZATION"

I lowkey wish raiders would go away. SE just caters to them and they convince SE to optimize the fun and challenge out of literally everything.

You believing that they made the AST changes for raiders, in a thread about changes that prove that they don't give a shit about higher end players, is absolutely wild.

Repair that chip on your shoulder. Raiders didn't kill your dog, and you don't have to let them live rent free in your head.

[Auro_Seldaris]

You believing that they made the AST changes for raiders, in a thread about changes that prove that they don't give a shit about higher end players, is absolutely wild.

Repair that chip on your shoulder. Raiders didn't kill your dog, and you don't have to let them live rent free in your head.

Oh please. The raider optimization Discord was called what again? THE BALANCE. Because that was the only card they thought was worth a damn. They complained about Balance-fishing and "card RNG" and "muh optimization" til the devs gutted the job. Twice. So that all it is now is particle effect showoff and lottery scratch-off tickets. Or whatever tf it is now, because I gave up on it years ago and switched to Sage. Most casual/midcore AST mains were perfectly fine with the job as it was. Those changes were certainly not for normal players of the job, so who was it for then? Raiders. Because it made the job more "statistically consistent".

The fact you don't think they cater to raiders, when they keep coming up with new raider content, and virtually all the content released for DT so far has been raider-coded is, itself, effing hilarious.

Besides, how does this thread prove they don't care about high-end players? According to Exxu Plosion's analysis, that's basically who these BLM changes will benefit most... newbies to the job, and raiders. Because it's going to make it simpler for raiders to execute than current BLM play. (even though personally all he wanted was potency changes and nerft to PCT, not gutting the job's identity and class fantasy.)

Unless you think Exxu doesn't know what he's talking about.