FRU has been cleared without Tanks!

[Valence]

Having a healer isn't a detriment like having tanks in Ramuh EX would have been. If you want a simple comparison, it is that right there.

But having a healer is a detriment though. A pretty big one.

[Mikey_R]

So yes in both runs it’s literally

“Do you meet the minimum requirements to exclude this role to make this run easier. If yes exclude this role for pure benefit”

The only benefit to not excluding the healer comes from if you don’t meet the minimum competency; which extreme pre excludes for

If you want to reduce it down to that, then you can, as long as you realise that every situation is different based on many factors, which means you cannot just conflate 2 subjects and say they are the same. That is literally the main take away from this whole thing.

But having a healer is a detriment though. A pretty big one.

Stop being hyperbolic, a healer in DF is not a detriment.

[Supersnow845]

If you want to reduce it down to that, then you can, as long as you realise that every situation is different based on many factors, which means you cannot just conflate 2 subjects and say they are the same. That is literally the main take away from this whole thing.



Stop being hyperbolic, a healer in DF is not a detriment.

If you don’t think a healer in DF is a detriment then you aren’t a good enough tank to exclude the healer………which is our entire point. If you are a good enough tank then yes the healer is a detriment

[Mikey_R]

If you don’t think a healer in DF is a detriment then you aren’t a good enough tank to exclude the healer………which is our entire point. If you are a good enough tank then yes the healer is a detriment

This isn't about me, this is about the general community, who, in DF, can have a wide range of skill levels. Having a healer is just safer when going into that environment.

Ah! So we're back full circle to the enforced roles in DF vs PF argument. And you can bet if expert was strictly run in PF, you'd suddenly see an interesting shift in meta.

Probably, yes and we can have that discussion when it happens as it shows a clear switch in how the game is being played by the community.

And if your point is to say that some would be left behind after such a shift, then I'd agree, a small amount of the playerbase definitely would, like a small amount was left behind when double pulling / mass pulling became the enforced norm over time. if you want to compare this to Ramuh Ex where "everybody would be able to tank as SMN, easier than tanks", sure, but then it's comparing apples to oranges for the aforementioned reason that we're talking about extreme trials, which is a different audience that filters a different subset of the playerbase, and has a way higher skill floor, negating the problem of the players being left behind by the meta to begin with.

Yes, that has been my point the entire time, the situations are different, therefore need to be considered differently, in the same way you cannot compare tank struggles to healer struggles, or healer struggles in EX/Savage etc. compared to content run in the DF (at least in the English community). Even when talking about tanks in dungeons, there is even a discussion to be had between them, mainly the way WAR can very effectively get through a dungeon on it's own, but if you have a DRK? It is likely impossible. Another reason why having a healer in DF is not a detriment.