FRU has been cleared without Tanks!

[Oizen]

To be honest I don't think anything really needs to change because of this, FRU is a fight with a lot of downtime and the bosses barely auto to begin with.

[chip793]

Can't wait for the no DPS run.

[Vyrerus]

Aww when I heard this was cleared without tanks, somebody told me it was just healers. I was expecting an all healers clear. Sadge.

Anyway, XIV is baby town frolics gameplay wise since SHB, so it doesn't surprise me or anyone, I don't think.

[BelegErkhten]

Anyway, XIV is baby town frolics gameplay wise since SHB, so it doesn't surprise me or anyone, I don't think.

The real Blackpill is knowing that it still wasn't actually hard before then either, but people gaslit themselves into thinking the game was hard because they had no idea what they were doing. "Game was harder in Hevansward" because you had people who would play PLD and never press anything other than Rage of Halone, like no shit the game is harder when you have people with no idea how to play their job and even less desire to learn how to do so.

[Daralii]

The real Blackpill is knowing that it still wasn't actually hard before then either, but people gaslit themselves into thinking the game was hard because they had no idea what they were doing. "Game was harder in Hevansward" because you had people who would play PLD and never press anything other than Rage of Halone, like no shit the game is harder when you have people with no idea how to play their job and even less desire to learn how to do so.

Something like managing Blood of the Dragon on DRG was absolutely more difficult than what it's like now.

[Supersnow845]

Seriously tanks, demand your role mechanics back. The state of agro in 14 is hilariously bad

I’d support tanks being sick of being melees with training wheels

[Tint]

Seriously tanks, demand your role mechanics back. The state of agro in 14 is hilariously bad

I’d support tanks being sick of being melees with training wheels

Aggro was barely a role mechanic. Well, at least not since level 30 / 40 when you got your tank stance. There was barely any aggro problems when you did 1 or maybe 2 aggro combos and then dropped the stance for the rest of the fight.

The aggro management was done by the DDs and healers, so tanks could avoid using aggro skills. And of course Ninja.


What tanks actually lost is defensive cooldown management, crowd control, keeping debuffs active on the enemy, enemy placement, and a sense of risk reward by tanking without tank stance (which sounds contrary to the role fantasy of tanks, but at least you actually had to press your buttons to survive).

[Supersnow845]

Aggro was barely a role mechanic. Well, at least not since level 30 / 40 when you got your tank stance. There was barely any aggro problems when you did 1 or maybe 2 aggro combos and then dropped the stance for the rest of the fight.

The aggro management was done by the DDs and healers, so tanks could avoid using aggro skills. And of course Ninja.


What tanks actually lost is defensive cooldown management, crowd control, keeping debuffs active on the enemy, enemy placement, and a sense of risk reward by tanking without tank stance (which sounds contrary to the role fantasy of tanks, but at least you actually had to press your buttons to survive).

I’m saying “tanks demand agro back” not as in they lost it in ShB as in “why was agro always a NIN mechanic THEN they lost it entirely”

Tanks deserve actual agro management that isn’t offloaded to the NIN

[Valence]

Aggro was barely a role mechanic. Well, at least not since level 30 / 40 when you got your tank stance. There was barely any aggro problems when you did 1 or maybe 2 aggro combos and then dropped the stance for the rest of the fight.

This was only true because of Shadewalker, which could have been corrected. Meanwhile in casual content it wasn't unusual to have aggro shenanigans happen.

[Azurarok]

There used to be a fair drawback to even swapping tank stances in the past too, right? 10s recast on Defiance/Deliverance, while Grit and Oaths were GCDs. They were all adjusted to a 3s recast in early EW, later to 2s. It kinda sounded like the penalty for messing up switching stances could've been a bit harsh and placed a sizeable burden on the rest of the party to me.

With a short recast it'd be a little bloaty to just have them essentially lock you out of using certain skills like cleric stance seemed to do, but I feel that can be avoided when they can significantly change the function of a skill and gave them a use in either stance, which sounds like was more the case for tank stances (it was also how EW PvP RDM's white/black shift worked).

Also does it even have to be a stance dancing on every tank? Could one job have specific skills to do enmity/defensive management at the cost of dps and no stance at all, while another uses the current simplified stance and defensive tools but have a more complex dps kit or somesuch?