Raiders, why do you consider raiding just not memory games ?

[RoboticNomad]

The vast, vast majority of people don't enjoy practicing the piano or running around the gym a million times.

I agree, I don't find those fun either. Yet there are businesses that fully cater to those that do these things.
Since it seems to be one of their major focuses, XIV has clearly chosen this type of raiding to be what they cater to. You can argue whatever you want but it's ultimately subjective and this is just what their design philosophy is. It's not inherently a wrong thing to do, but it does cause issues like Dawntrail has where if you don't like raiding, there's not much there for you at all. Hopefully 7.2 is the magic Patch that was Promised and will deliver the content™ for people who don't like the raiding.

[Mawlzy]

I agree, I don't find those fun either. Yet there are businesses that fully cater to those that do these things.
Since it seems to be one of their major focuses, XIV has clearly chosen this type of raiding to be what they cater to. You can argue whatever you want but it's ultimately subjective and this is just what their design philosophy is. It's not inherently a wrong thing to do, but it does cause issues like Dawntrail has where if you don't like raiding, there's not much there for you at all. Hopefully 7.2 is the magic Patch that was Promised and will deliver the content™ for people who don't like the raiding.

Presumably because the Director likes such gameplay, as do the streamers who have his ear. As we've seen on these boards, such a focus is only tenable when other aspects of the game are healthy.

[RoboticNomad]

Presumably because the Director likes such gameplay, as do the streamers who have his ear. As we've seen on these boards, such a focus is only tenable when other aspects of the game are healthy.

Aye. Hopefully the reaction to Dawntrail has been enough to give them some pause and cause them to rethink some things. A simple change up to the scheduled content releases would probably be a big step in the right direction and I'm assuming that would be an easier thing to change. Some grindy relic steps or some such on release and in the .1 patch would go a long way for people.

[Valence]

I agree, I don't find those fun either. Yet there are businesses that fully cater to those that do these things.
Since it seems to be one of their major focuses, XIV has clearly chosen this type of raiding to be what they cater to. You can argue whatever you want but it's ultimately subjective and this is just what their design philosophy is. It's not inherently a wrong thing to do, but it does cause issues like Dawntrail has where if you don't like raiding, there's not much there for you at all. Hopefully 7.2 is the magic Patch that was Promised and will deliver the content™ for people who don't like the raiding.

My concern is more toward veteran players that have actually played through a different type of game that ARR/HW XIV used to be, and got alienated by this modern sludge we're being served. Making a type of game, with all its woes and flaws, for a specific audience, fine. But stabbing your audience in the back by changing what the game is about, that's something else entirely.

I'm saying that XIV raiding has parallels to being on a sports team. You run the drills, you master the movements, and then you play the game.

It's not for everyone and it doesn't have to be. Fishing isn't for everyone. Crafting and Gathering isn't for everyone. Field content isn't for everyone. Mahjong isn't for everyone.

Yeah well, it used to be different, so I'm annoyed about it. Feels a little crass to tell players that "it's fine not to like it, it's not for everyone", when it used to be something they actually used to enjoy.