#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Supersnow845]

You clearly miss the point, it's easy to clear fast on solo healers and tanks, the reason why you pick tank is because of more damage lol. I don't get why this is hard to understand that dungeons in general are just boring and easy and again you can clear on most comps.

It sure does matter both ways! I find it annoying that healers can make me using defensives feel invalid in bosses because they spam mit/shields/healing on me, but it is what it is the content is designed for everyone its not really designed for people who want a challenge, news flash tank is also pretty boring in dungeons.

If you want to have a fun healing time on healer go play with 3 dps and 1 healer! problem solved it won't even take long.

If you nerfed tanks to the point where healers actually had to heal a lot in dungeons then they'd be melee dps lol

I’m responding to your point that “dungeon balance shouldn’t matter”. Not the fact it’s possible to 1H3D a dungeon

That basic premise alone is flawed, even in simple content like dungeons each angle of the trinity should have a place to shine and a way to meaningfully contribute. You immediately go “just 1H3D” which basically amounts to “yeah healers can feel impactful in dungeons………when there isn’t a tank”.

Meaningful contribution of an entire role in a piece of content shouldn’t be contingent on another role being bad just because said content is easy

[Rithy255]

I’m responding to your point that “dungeon balance shouldn’t matter”. Not the fact it’s possible to 1H3D a dungeon

That basic premise alone is flawed, even in simple content like dungeons each angle of the trinity should have a place to shine and a way to meaningfully contribute. You immediately go “just 1H3D” which basically amounts to “yeah healers can feel impactful in dungeons………when there isn’t a tank”.

Meaningful contribution of an entire role in a piece of content shouldn’t be contingent on another role being bad just because said content is easy

I don't think dungeon balance should matter, it's content designed around the msq it's meant to be clearable, non standard comps clearing it is fine and is actually pretty interesting to me, I enjoy doing tankless dungeon runs or healerless runs for fun. Not all content needs the "trinity system" especially the easier stuff. It's also "yeah tanks can feel impactful in dungeons when there isn't a healer" can also apply here, as a tank player i don't really care that healers can clear dungeons without me lol. even if 1 healer and 3 dps was dungeon "meta" for speed runs I would go "oh neat".

Problem is Tank/healer aren't really both needed to meaningful contribute one can contribute more then the other and the dungeon is still easy, honestly both can play really bad and still easily clear, so it makes sense that one good player can clear on either role it's meant dungeons shouldn't require healers to be intensely trying and learning damage profiles in a dungeon. At the end of the day is entry level content, I'm not going to be too upset that it can be cleared without the trinity system.

Does this mean I don't think healer's shouldn't be more fun, absolutely not I think both tanks and healers are suffering because the game has been so DPS focused to the point these roles have been ignored over the years and been given defensives, healing ect. that they don't really need, but even if you tuned healer and tank in ways that made them more balanced between each other dungeons would still be doable by non standard solo support comps, if you manage to make it where tanks and healers have to contribute to the point of try harding in a dungeon then good job now casual players will not want to pick up tank and healer for having too much responsibility, which they should have... In difficult content not dungeons...

[Supersnow845]

I don't think dungeon balance should matter, it's content designed around the msq it's meant to be clearable, non standard comps clearing it is fine and is actually pretty interesting to me, I enjoy doing tankless dungeon runs or healerless runs for fun. Not all content needs the "trinity system" especially the easier stuff. It's also "yeah tanks can feel impactful in dungeons when there isn't a healer" can also apply here, as a tank player i don't really care that healers can clear dungeons without me lol. even if 1 healer and 3 dps was dungeon "meta" for speed runs I would go "oh neat".

Problem is Tank/healer aren't really both needed to meaningful contribute one can contribute more then the other and the dungeon is still easy, honestly both can play really bad and still easily clear, so it makes sense that one good player can clear on either role it's meant dungeons shouldn't require healers to be intensely trying and learning damage profiles in a dungeon. At the end of the day is entry level content, I'm not going to be too upset that it can be cleared without the trinity system.

Does this mean I don't think healer's shouldn't be more fun, absolutely not I think both tanks and healers are suffering because the game has been so DPS focused to the point these roles have been ignored over the years and been given defensives, healing ect. that they don't really need, but even if you tuned healer and tank in ways that made them more balanced between each other dungeons would still be doable by non standard solo support comps, if you manage to make it where tanks and healers have to contribute to the point of try harding in a dungeon then good job now casual players will not want to pick up tank and healer for having too much responsibility, which they should have... In difficult content not dungeons...

If “not all content needs the trinity system” then the game shouldn’t functionally enforce the trinity system in all content that’s the problem

If I queue for a roulette that roulette needs a healer to pop. Ergo the experience of the healer shouldn’t be contingent on the tank being garbage or vice versa. This isn’t about attempting to block non standard comps. This is the fact that the pretty enforced standard comp should give meaningful ways to shine for each role and right now healers entirely lack that if the tank is half way competent

You shouldn’t need high levels of competence for both roles just to clear a dungeon but neither should one role being competent basically make another role functionally redundant. Because you have to remember while 1H3D is possible tanks remove any meaningful impact healers can have in a dungeon even in a standard comp. You could alleviate this by giving healers something else to do but then why then is the trinity tank healer DPS and not Tank+healer, DPS and “something else”

[miraidensetsu]

I don't think dungeon balance should matter

To me, it's why Yoshi-P said go play ultimate if you want to have a fun meaningfull healing experience.

Dungeon balance do matter. It shouldn't have to be fun only for tanks. We, healers, want to play too.

But S-E won't let me do more damage than anyone because healer tax. I have to do THE WEAKER DAMAGE just because.
S-E won't let me heal because they want tanks to have strong self heal options and not need me to keep the party alive.
S-E won't let me buff my comrades because Physical Ranged DPS strangely have that role now.
S-E won't let me nerf my enemies because they don't like DOT and think all healers are dumb enough to not be able to keep more than 1 DOT. Also, healers can't do damage in their opinion.
S-E won't let me have a damage rotation because I have to focus on healing what a tank already healed. And, again, healers can't do damage. That's why they only let me have one and only one attack. I fuck hate being the defenseless healer. Also, tanks will be sad if I do more damage than them.

So what the hell S-E wants me to do? Switch to tank main in order to keep healing? Be a glare bot whose only button pressed during some Dungeon is glare or holy?

[SamanthaVideogames]

i like healing, its fun

[Supersnow845]

“It’s just dungeons bro they don’t matter” tank mains really don’t like when you flip the logic around and go “it’s just dungeons bro so my holy should totally permanently stun the enemy and I should do 50% more damage than you for no reason while you have a one button rotation”

It’s just casual content only ever seems to apply when healers are sick of thier gameplay being boring slop

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

“If we nerf tanks to the point healer need to heal in dungeons tanks would just be a melee dps lol”

Well good news for you, healers are already pseudo casters with gimped damage. Honestly at this point healer icon should be changed into duty finder ticket icon. It’s what we are created for: to pop duty finder queues, and y’all will like it.

Ah, imagine sentencing a game content into the ”not fun”-box. Something doesn’t add up there lol.

EDIT: Not to mention the said content is something that every players has to interact at some point to progress… you know, MSQ and stuffs? What’s with the aversion to actually make this progress fun—and in turn, making recycled content like roulettes more fun & engaging? Why’s all the ‘fun’ being locked away in some obscure content that over half of the playerbase don’t even touch? I mean I guess only Creatively Bankrupt Unit 3 can know the real answer… lol

[Dante131]

“If we nerf tanks to the point healer need to heal in dungeons tanks would just be a melee dps lol”

Well good news for you, healers are already pseudo casters with gimped damage. Honestly at this point healer icon should be changed into duty finder ticket icon. It’s what we are created for: to pop duty finder queues, and y’all will like it.

Ah, imagine sentencing a game content into the ”not fun”-box. Something doesn’t add up there lol.

sadly it seems this is the way now

[Rithy255]

“It’s just dungeons bro they don’t matter” tank mains really don’t like when you flip the logic around and go “it’s just dungeons bro so my holy should totally permanently stun the enemy and I should do 50% more damage than you for no reason while you have a one button rotation”

It’s just casual content only ever seems to apply when healers are sick of thier gameplay being boring slop

If healers want more interesting gameplay give them more damage buttons and things to do, you can likely get away with reducing some defensive aspects about tank and allow bigger pulls with bosses dealing more damage ect.

My issue isn't the fact that tanks are too "op in dungeons keep it like that!" they are, but the fact you think a 1tank 3dps run (or 1healer 3dps) should be impossible in a casual dungeon, though I guess this is the forums and now because I take issue with thinking that dungeon healing/tanking shouldn't be as intense as savage content where I do think healing and Mitigation need to be very important to your success.

My main point is if I'm playing dps and either my tank or healer isn't great I know we can get through it still in a decent amount of time, but if you have both a bad healer and bad tank then enjoy single pulls and a 30minute duty, now if you depend on both players good, well enjoy long duties more often congrats.

Using dungeons as your example on why healers are in a bad spot will always be ridiculous because again you can do dungeons with 3dps 1healer, Dungeons are Currently a joke so why are we using it to prop up "healer's are useless", news flash all roles are pretty much useless in dungeon content, It's not designed to have intense gameplay whether you like it or not, if dungeons were designed to actually challenge players to the point where a full standard trinity comp was required then people would get walled off.

Acting like dungeons are super fun and intense for tanks and dps while it's only unfun for healers, it's really not it's actually... boring too, almost like the content itself was designed to be easy but, for some reason because healers are boring in dungeons that's a problem with healer design and not actually the dungeons itself.

Next we're going to complain that fates need the full on trinity system. Honestly the game should move away from a strict forced trinity system and should embrace more creativity in general instead of depending on it. (aka phantom jobs but for casual content have fun!)

[Supersnow845]

“My issue is that you think a 1T3D clear should be impossible”

Literally where did I say that. What I actually want is simply for a tank to not be so effective at healing that they are doing my job for me in a dungeon (or the trial, normal raid, alliance raid, savage raid, ultimate, take your pick tanks can replace healers in every level of content if you are competant enough). As strange as this sounds I’m the healer and I actually want to heal. A lot of the fun of being a healer is getting to actually heal. Sure I could make my job more tolerable by not ALSO having a garbage DPS rotation but at its core I want to be the one being the primary healer, is that so strange to understand. You can have tanks ASSIST healers not get walled by being a bad healer but the rank should never be doing healing as the primary aspect of the job

And this again circles back to my original point ALL CONTENT IN THIS GAME SHOULD BE FUN. If you are so willing to write off pieces of content and just go “it’s easy it’s bad get over it” then that’s a problem right then and there. However even in easy dungeons I still have fun with well designed jobs (read not healers and a few others) so it’s totally possible to have fun with content below your skill level. But the game has to actually allow it. The game functionally doesn’t allow healers to have fun in dungeons

And let’s take a step back from dungeons for a second, healers are boring in ALL content. Is there an arbitrary line for you where content is easy enough that healers are allowed to be boring? I don’t know about you but I’d like there to be nuance to all jobs at all levels of content