#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Aravell]

Paladin is also a straight up superior healer thanks to Clemency & Divine Veil, especially when you have 4 of them.
Removing Clemency or not, sacrificing the job identity for stopping the 4 paladin clear is a debate I leave to you, it's a healer GCD after all.

I think Clemency itself is fine, the 4 PLD clear is more a problem with the incoming damage than PLD itself. If you can clear by spamming Clemency, then that means you can also just spam Cure II at those points, that's far too little damage in what's supposed to be a difficult fight.

The largest problem is still that the dev team views more healing as just higher damage, so we end up with a ton of mitigation checks but very few actual heal checks. If we can get more actual heal checks, that would also solve groups completely removing the healer role because then you'd actually need at least one healer to clear.

[Rithy255]

You're not fooling anyone.

1 Tank and 3 DPS is meta for speed running dungeons due to the tank's ability to hold enmity, number of mitigations, and broken self and group sustain (for dungeons). Not even mentioning the biggest thing for speed running: Tanks also do thousands of more DPS than the healer role.

Alexandria Team Speed Runs

Tender Valley Team Speed Runs

The Strayborough Deadwalk Team Speed Runs

Yuweyawata Field Station Team Speed Runs

Crazy how in each list, the top 50 all have tanks. Not a single 1 Healer 3 DPS Team. Lots of 1 Tank 3 Dps teams though.

So who am I exactly trying to fool? I've literally done 3 dps and 1 healer runs before, it didn't take long at all, if healers had better damage then tanks they'd likely run that for speed runs. also I didn't say it was meta to run 1 healer and 3 dps for speed groups, It wouldn't be as fast as 3 dps and 1 tank, because tank does more damage, 3 dps and healer of course will be less common because of that, with the added fact that it's easier to likely just solo tank.

Dungeon content shouldn't really be took seriously and we shouldn't be using dungeons to prove that healer is flawed, it's easy to tell that healer's need big changes but using dungeons as a reason is baffling to me, that content isn't engaging or difficult for any role you can pretty much run anything with in reason.

[Supersnow845]

Why should content be excluded from balance and design discussions because it’s easy

I have raided ultimates in the past, I can still enjoy a dungeon if you give me a well designed job like PCT.

Saying dungeon design and balance doesn’t matter works both ways, if it’s totally fine for the healer to just suck it up and deal with being an inferior role why can’t tanks suck it up and not have broken AOE self healing. If you ask for the latter though tank mains will tell you to stop taking away their fun despite dungeon design and balance not mattering when it comes to healer fun

[Rithy255]

Why should content be excluded from balance and design discussions because it’s easy

I have raided ultimates in the past, I can still enjoy a dungeon if you give me a well designed job like PCT.

Saying dungeon design and balance doesn’t matter works both ways, if it’s totally fine for the healer to just suck it up and deal with being an inferior role why can’t tanks suck it up and not have broken AOE self healing. If you ask for the latter though tank mains will tell you to stop taking away their fun despite dungeon design and balance not mattering when it comes to healer fun

You clearly miss the point, it's easy to clear fast on solo healers and tanks, the reason why you pick tank is because of more damage lol. I don't get why this is hard to understand that dungeons in general are just boring and easy and again you can clear on most comps.

It sure does matter both ways! I find it annoying that healers can make me using defensives feel invalid in bosses because they spam mit/shields/healing on me, but it is what it is the content is designed for everyone its not really designed for people who want a challenge, news flash tank is also pretty boring in dungeons.

If you want to have a fun healing time on healer go play with 3 dps and 1 healer! problem solved it won't even take long.

If you nerfed tanks to the point where healers actually had to heal a lot in dungeons then they'd be melee dps lol

[Supersnow845]

You clearly miss the point, it's easy to clear fast on solo healers and tanks, the reason why you pick tank is because of more damage lol. I don't get why this is hard to understand that dungeons in general are just boring and easy and again you can clear on most comps.

It sure does matter both ways! I find it annoying that healers can make me using defensives feel invalid in bosses because they spam mit/shields/healing on me, but it is what it is the content is designed for everyone its not really designed for people who want a challenge, news flash tank is also pretty boring in dungeons.

If you want to have a fun healing time on healer go play with 3 dps and 1 healer! problem solved it won't even take long.

If you nerfed tanks to the point where healers actually had to heal a lot in dungeons then they'd be melee dps lol

I’m responding to your point that “dungeon balance shouldn’t matter”. Not the fact it’s possible to 1H3D a dungeon

That basic premise alone is flawed, even in simple content like dungeons each angle of the trinity should have a place to shine and a way to meaningfully contribute. You immediately go “just 1H3D” which basically amounts to “yeah healers can feel impactful in dungeons………when there isn’t a tank”.

Meaningful contribution of an entire role in a piece of content shouldn’t be contingent on another role being bad just because said content is easy

[Rithy255]

I’m responding to your point that “dungeon balance shouldn’t matter”. Not the fact it’s possible to 1H3D a dungeon

That basic premise alone is flawed, even in simple content like dungeons each angle of the trinity should have a place to shine and a way to meaningfully contribute. You immediately go “just 1H3D” which basically amounts to “yeah healers can feel impactful in dungeons………when there isn’t a tank”.

Meaningful contribution of an entire role in a piece of content shouldn’t be contingent on another role being bad just because said content is easy

I don't think dungeon balance should matter, it's content designed around the msq it's meant to be clearable, non standard comps clearing it is fine and is actually pretty interesting to me, I enjoy doing tankless dungeon runs or healerless runs for fun. Not all content needs the "trinity system" especially the easier stuff. It's also "yeah tanks can feel impactful in dungeons when there isn't a healer" can also apply here, as a tank player i don't really care that healers can clear dungeons without me lol. even if 1 healer and 3 dps was dungeon "meta" for speed runs I would go "oh neat".

Problem is Tank/healer aren't really both needed to meaningful contribute one can contribute more then the other and the dungeon is still easy, honestly both can play really bad and still easily clear, so it makes sense that one good player can clear on either role it's meant dungeons shouldn't require healers to be intensely trying and learning damage profiles in a dungeon. At the end of the day is entry level content, I'm not going to be too upset that it can be cleared without the trinity system.

Does this mean I don't think healer's shouldn't be more fun, absolutely not I think both tanks and healers are suffering because the game has been so DPS focused to the point these roles have been ignored over the years and been given defensives, healing ect. that they don't really need, but even if you tuned healer and tank in ways that made them more balanced between each other dungeons would still be doable by non standard solo support comps, if you manage to make it where tanks and healers have to contribute to the point of try harding in a dungeon then good job now casual players will not want to pick up tank and healer for having too much responsibility, which they should have... In difficult content not dungeons...

[Supersnow845]

I don't think dungeon balance should matter, it's content designed around the msq it's meant to be clearable, non standard comps clearing it is fine and is actually pretty interesting to me, I enjoy doing tankless dungeon runs or healerless runs for fun. Not all content needs the "trinity system" especially the easier stuff. It's also "yeah tanks can feel impactful in dungeons when there isn't a healer" can also apply here, as a tank player i don't really care that healers can clear dungeons without me lol. even if 1 healer and 3 dps was dungeon "meta" for speed runs I would go "oh neat".

Problem is Tank/healer aren't really both needed to meaningful contribute one can contribute more then the other and the dungeon is still easy, honestly both can play really bad and still easily clear, so it makes sense that one good player can clear on either role it's meant dungeons shouldn't require healers to be intensely trying and learning damage profiles in a dungeon. At the end of the day is entry level content, I'm not going to be too upset that it can be cleared without the trinity system.

Does this mean I don't think healer's shouldn't be more fun, absolutely not I think both tanks and healers are suffering because the game has been so DPS focused to the point these roles have been ignored over the years and been given defensives, healing ect. that they don't really need, but even if you tuned healer and tank in ways that made them more balanced between each other dungeons would still be doable by non standard solo support comps, if you manage to make it where tanks and healers have to contribute to the point of try harding in a dungeon then good job now casual players will not want to pick up tank and healer for having too much responsibility, which they should have... In difficult content not dungeons...

If “not all content needs the trinity system” then the game shouldn’t functionally enforce the trinity system in all content that’s the problem

If I queue for a roulette that roulette needs a healer to pop. Ergo the experience of the healer shouldn’t be contingent on the tank being garbage or vice versa. This isn’t about attempting to block non standard comps. This is the fact that the pretty enforced standard comp should give meaningful ways to shine for each role and right now healers entirely lack that if the tank is half way competent

You shouldn’t need high levels of competence for both roles just to clear a dungeon but neither should one role being competent basically make another role functionally redundant. Because you have to remember while 1H3D is possible tanks remove any meaningful impact healers can have in a dungeon even in a standard comp. You could alleviate this by giving healers something else to do but then why then is the trinity tank healer DPS and not Tank+healer, DPS and “something else”

[miraidensetsu]

I don't think dungeon balance should matter

To me, it's why Yoshi-P said go play ultimate if you want to have a fun meaningfull healing experience.

Dungeon balance do matter. It shouldn't have to be fun only for tanks. We, healers, want to play too.

But S-E won't let me do more damage than anyone because healer tax. I have to do THE WEAKER DAMAGE just because.
S-E won't let me heal because they want tanks to have strong self heal options and not need me to keep the party alive.
S-E won't let me buff my comrades because Physical Ranged DPS strangely have that role now.
S-E won't let me nerf my enemies because they don't like DOT and think all healers are dumb enough to not be able to keep more than 1 DOT. Also, healers can't do damage in their opinion.
S-E won't let me have a damage rotation because I have to focus on healing what a tank already healed. And, again, healers can't do damage. That's why they only let me have one and only one attack. I fuck hate being the defenseless healer. Also, tanks will be sad if I do more damage than them.

So what the hell S-E wants me to do? Switch to tank main in order to keep healing? Be a glare bot whose only button pressed during some Dungeon is glare or holy?

[SamanthaVideogames]

i like healing, its fun

[Supersnow845]

“It’s just dungeons bro they don’t matter” tank mains really don’t like when you flip the logic around and go “it’s just dungeons bro so my holy should totally permanently stun the enemy and I should do 50% more damage than you for no reason while you have a one button rotation”

It’s just casual content only ever seems to apply when healers are sick of thier gameplay being boring slop