fflogs and privacy

[Kohashi]

The privacy of your grey parse and that you cannot play your class? You can tell without looking at somebody's logs.

Report the person and get on with your life.

[TaleraRistain]

It will always be seen as such. Regardless of whether it is a good mentality or not. It's very much a case of "what are you trying to hide" and a person's brain will always gravitate to negative reasons first, especially if you don't know the person. Almost all the people in this thread who want logs hidden are self-proclaimed "bad" players.

If it had opt-in from the start, we wouldn't have this mentality. It would be "Oh that person hasn't made an account there to opt-in" but the data would still be available and able to be analyzed so we could responsibly use it for comparison and improvement.

[Collin_Sky]

By this logic, we should ban chat. After all, people harass in chat and say mean things, right? Doesn't matter if it's an exceedingly low number and the vast majority interactive normally or don't say anything at all. If any harassment happens whatsoever, ban the thing!

Friendly reminder that chat in (real) PVP is banned. Maybe you have the right idea.

Ultimately, "harassment" over this sort of stuff happens in 2 ways:
1. Someone uses the information to harass you in chat, report them and they will get their due.
2. Someone kicks you from their party - move on with your life, the party was not the right fit for you anyway, and they did you a favour by self-selecting.

[Collin_Sky]

If it had opt-in from the start, we wouldn't have this mentality. It would be "Oh that person hasn't made an account there to opt-in" but the data would still be available and able to be analyzed so we could responsibly use it for comparison and improvement.

Maybe when fflogs was a new thing. Now it's an old, well known website it would be very much a case of "this person doesn't have an fflogs account? I will assume they don't raid and therefore are a bad player"

[TaleraRistain]

Maybe when fflogs was a new thing. Now it's an old, well known website it would be very much a case of "this person doesn't have an fflogs account? I will assume they don't raid and therefore are a bad player"

Someone doesn't have to raid to be a good player, though. I see great players in roulette who don't raid because it's not their thing but they're reliable party members. They do the mechanics, they support their team, and are generally just a great player to run with. This community is far too obsessed with that website even when it doesn't give all the data.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Im honest, if i see someone hide his Logs (Ofc only in Savage/Extreme, everything else i dont care) i will kick him without 1 second of a thought, its not about being a bad or good player and i dont even care if he is orange or grey, the only thing which matters for me is the amount of reclears he has. So like previous people said, if someone uses fflogs to harass you just report him and move on

[ForteNightshade]

Someone doesn't have to raid to be a good player, though. I see great players in roulette who don't raid because it's not their thing but they're reliable party members. They do the mechanics, they support their team, and are generally just a great player to run with. This community is far too obsessed with that website even when it doesn't give all the data.

Unfortunately, it boils down to a process of averages. Most of the time, when I've had someone join a PF I'm in with their logs hidden, they reveal precisely why said logs were hidden. Are there exceptions? Absolutely. Heck, I know a speed runner who W1'd TOP and FRU who hides their logs. They are very much the exception to the rule hence why that stigma exists.

However, that stigma is nowhere near as prevalent in learning parties because that's the environment you should be in if you've never raided before regardless of how good you might be. And nobody cares what your log status is in anything below EX. They hardly care about EX.

[BigCheez]

The people who see value in battle logs are not the people who are the target of humiliation and harassment over battle logs. In fact, the former group are the people performing the harassment. Part of the value of scraping logs is that it can be used this way.

It's not equitable that a certain plugin is deemed good because it is useful to some people despite being harmful to others.

I don't really understand this line of thinking.

If someone finds the idea of being confronted with the fact that they have no idea how to play their job humiliating, why wouldn't they just learn how to play their job or set their logs to hidden? If someone doesn't care about their performance in-game, why would their response to said "harassment" be anything other than "who cares?"?

The reality of the situation is that I don't need third-party or a website to tell me if someone is standing around doing nothing instead of casting. In normal mode content, the overwhelming majority of the playerbase just want to get in, get their rewards, and get out. People are incredibly unlikely to have issues unless they're making so little effort that they're noticeably slowing down the progress of the group third-party tools or not.

[Valence]

Looks like this thread definitely exploded heh. I just want to address this though:

You're trying to conflate two very difference circumstances here.

Your performance in a raid isn't private information nor do you own it. FFlogs simply takes numbers, calculates them and gives a percentile based on the results. The plugin you're trying to compare this with hitching onto your unique ID to find all retainer information, alts and essentially exposes information for the sole purpose of revealing your in-game identity. Bluntly stated, FFlogs is utilitarian in what it aims to accomplish, especially in a game so driven by DPS. Whereas the plugin is potentially insidious and serves little practical purpose beyond that.

Perhaps.

It definitely isn't private information for my party and my party alone, not for everyone to see. And it's also definitely not information that's persistent: once it is over, it's not stored as public data anywhere.

[BigCheez]

Someone doesn't have to raid to be a good player, though. I see great players in roulette who don't raid because it's not their thing but they're reliable party members. They do the mechanics, they support their team, and are generally just a great player to run with. This community is far too obsessed with that website even when it doesn't give all the data.

Someone doesn't have to be a good player to run roulettes. No one is checking your logs in roulettes. Turbocasuals seem to be a lot more obsessed with FFLogs than hardcore players. People's bad normal mode logs living rent free in their heads, lmao.