Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[Mawlzy]

I agreed with you up to this point. I think CAR is exactly what the game needed, the only issues in my opinion is:
-It was overtuned to where a single mistake in the 2nd phase leads to a single wipe.
-Having the 2nd phase be a 24 player body check is terrible cause you have to rely on all 24 players having stable connections (no dcs) or know what to do which increases the chance of a wipe.
If these points didn't exist, no one would be complaining about CAR cause it benefits both casuals and hardcore players.

Okay. I've seen a lot of complaints by raiders about CAR, but that may be largely to do with PF issues rather than the raid design itself.

I can't see any way in which this content benefits casuals.

[Kai-XP]

Okay. I've seen a lot of complaints by raiders about CAR, but that may be largely to do with PF issues rather than the raid design itself.

I can't see any way in which this content benefits casuals.

It benefits those casuals that want to step into higher end content (yes those exist), but are too afraid to step into EXs or Savages cause the mechanics themselves aren't inherently difficult compared to something like Superchain Theory from P12s. As I said, the fight itself is overtuned imo. CAR should have mechanics that 12-18 players are responsible for leaving 6 - 12 players in what Destiny 2 players call "Add Clear" (aka doing nothing).

[Mawlzy]

It benefits those casuals that want to step into higher end content (yes those exist), but are too afraid to step into EXs or Savages cause the mechanics themselves aren't inherently difficult compared to something like Superchain Theory from P12s. As I said, the fight itself is overtuned imo. CAR should have mechanics that 12-18 players are responsible for leaving 6 - 12 players in what Destiny 2 players call "Add Clear" (aka doing nothing).

Okay, that's reasonable. But it seems you're saying CAR could be useful in this way if X, Y and Z were fixed, whereas my observation was on how useful CAR is as deployed. (And the attitude of SQEX that "we asked the devs for EX, got Savage, shrugged and released it anyway" is absolutely bizarre to me.)

If we're looking for bridges, however, I'd suggest an EX level AR that can be successfully attempted via DF is absolutely critical to attract casuals. We again run into semantics, but to me a casual interested in harder content is not someone who sits in PF for ages, then goes through hours of progging. However, even if DF-accessible, I'm afraid they'd instantly be stomped on by experienced players complaining they are wasting their time. Source: these boards.

Additionally, there is an informative Reddit thread started by someone asking "IS CAR a good place to get into harder content in DT?" and the universal response has been "hell no!"

[Kandraxx]

Thank goodness, I'm tired of getting 20+ minute dungeon runs or having to rez the same person 20 times in a single fight.

Yeah, god forbid someone uses the time of his life to learn real skills instead of memorizing a video game boss script and moveset.

[Sililos]

The other day i made the mistake of complaining that Hildibrands patch was less than 30 mins long without skipping cutscenes and had one of the hardcores in my FC chime in, guys cleared every ultimate and had Chaotic on farm at the time.
Guy was happy they shortened Hildibrand, said it and goldsaucer should be removed as it robs end game content a budget (Even though any extra budget just gets siphoned off to board members and shareholders, SE def isnt using it to fun their other games. Visions of Mana doesn't have Nvidia support let alone widescreen support in 2024 when it came out).
I see it all the time on OCE. The hardcores always want softcore content removed to 'free up dev budget for their content and drive off the plebs from entering THEIR content and slowing their progress down'.

Hell OCE is a good example of where the games gone wrong.
The servers that traditionally didnt have Hardcore raiders are dying off while the one raiding server is eating good.
You are now a high end raider, or you stand in limsa afk all day. There is no middle ground on the content.
Somedays the Party Finder has only 2-3 adverts up that are not chaotic.
Practice groups cant clear the first deaths hands or aero/death/flares so theres no chance at prog, the people there half the time dont want too be there but theres nothing else to do.
Sprouts cant do MSQ because Duty Finder is dead and Party finder groups time out before getting a single person join.

The casual content, and thus the majority of the player base just isnt there, Worst part is Yoshi-P has said he wont open OCE up to datacenter travel because 'it would kill the datacenter' despite that being what will draw OCE players back from US/JP (Its easier to leave for another datacenter when you can visit your old FC/Friends any time you like without needing an alt).

At this point, games dev budget is just being bled off to feed the endlessly greedy shareholders, and the hardcore content is king because thats what Yoshi-P wants to play, screw all the casuals and what they want, were just there to feed budget for his hardcore content.

[yesnt]

Didn't the Treasure Dungeon weapons come out in 7.1?

Treasure maps are not fun. No mechanics, bad RNG, barely any loot. I stopped counting my runs and I have only once managed to obtain ONE coffer. Completely brain-dead "content".

Can we please not argue like this is a competition? I think that hardcore players can have their content, but the game is altogether rather lacking since at least Post EW and that's not cool for anyone.

[AllenThyl]

Yeah, god forbid someone uses the time of his life to learn real skills instead of memorizing a video game boss script and moveset.

Then why play a video game (and even more, this particular one) in the first place, if playing the video game itself isn't the interesting thing?
This isn't a rhetorical question. It lies at the very heart of all these discussions. And only video games have these types of discussion. Why do so many people join Frontline just to afk? "For the rewards", yes. But what's the use of the rewards? What need does someone who has fundamentally no interest in participating in the very activity that they actively queued for, for job xp?
The same posters who complain about the severe lack of customization and individuality are also the same people who have all the excuses in the world for not doing even the bare minimum in ShB+ content. There are games out there with tons more customization, and no battle content (meaning no need for any battle content skill expression, no need for memorizing a video game boss script and moveset). Why aren't these games the more appealing venue when they are by every metric the obvious choice?

[yesnt]

Why aren't these games the more appealing venue when they are by every metric the obvious choice?

Because they are not Final Fantasy. There is a good chunk of people who love the lore and the world of Final Fantasy specifically.

[Lak14]

[AllenThyl]

Because they are not Final Fantasy. There is a good chunk of people who love the lore and the world of Final Fantasy specifically.

And which Final Fantasy game offered a huge amount of customization but no combat, or at least no combat that one actually had to engage with a little bit?