We are missing Content between Normal and Extreme. Wrong Audience for Chaotic

[HyperiusUltima]

An alliance raid for people who only do their roulettes and dailies where everyone can screw up is called normal mode, which dropped earlier this patch.



In your post you mention BA/Bozja which are normal difficulty content. If your point is that you want more exploratory zone content, I totally agree and that content is confirmed to be on the way.

If you're asking for them to bring back Hard mode however I would have to disagree. The current pipeline of normal/expert/alliance/extreme seems reasonable to me. If you can handle the latest alliance raid you should be able to handle an extreme. If you can't do that then you're not ready to move up. Creating a difficulty that is marginally different than normal isn't going to help that issue.

Yet the Extremes are ways and bounds more often than not in terms of difficulty compared to Alliance Raids. As a reminder: people praised the Althyk and Nymeia fight. Why? Because of a soft enrage timer. That was the one thing people liked and it felt 'challenging' on content to have something like that. However, we don't get that in our other Alliance Raids - ever. Only in that one instance has an Alliance Raid had an enrage at all. In all other content: Normal, Normal Raids, Expert? We don't get those. Regardless, unless you have a bridge to EX you aren't going to get them even potentially wanting to go to Savage Raids or higher; which is still on the player to decide what they're comfortable with.

[OlafQuintessa]

Totally agree and it's been like this for a loong time. The game is in desperate need of some midcore content. The last time there was something that fit the bill was when Ultima was the unreal - it was possible to jump in with a group of any casual players and get a clear before the evening was out. It was awesome! Everyone came away wanting to do it again the next week. That's exactly what midcore is. Something a bit challenging for 4-8 players that you can clear in one evening. Extremes take 3 times as long to clear and don't fit the bill.

The other important thing is making it accessible so you don't need to sit in party finder for hours trying to find learning groups. Criterion was such a huge mis-step in that respect. It could have been some sort of midcore dungeon content for 4 people that was quick to dive in to - instead we got yet more savage content. If they halved the mechanics on each boss in criterion it might be okay. Chaotic and Baldesion offer nothing for casual players either because it takes so much co-ordination to find a big enough group to get in. All in all I'm pretty tired of SE just catering to raiders with battle content and doing the bare minimum for everyone else. They're completely out of touch.

[mangelinabrolee]

Yeah I have to agree, im still waiting for a grind like eureka with a dungeon like BA, they really are making only content for the hardcore player base and semi harccore and nothing for casuals or people who enjoy a grind.

[Eyrilona]

For people who enjoy a fun grind that is. Because they certainly created enough to grind for. Do 50-60 endzone FATEs for an orchestrion roll! Another 50-60 for a Framer Kit! And to give you even more to do, have you considered farming around 4200 FATEs for a mount?

[Supersnow845]

An alliance raid for people who only do their roulettes and dailies where everyone can screw up is called normal mode, which dropped earlier this patch.



In your post you mention BA/Bozja which are normal difficulty content. If your point is that you want more exploratory zone content, I totally agree and that content is confirmed to be on the way.

If you're asking for them to bring back Hard mode however I would have to disagree. The current pipeline of normal/expert/alliance/extreme seems reasonable to me. If you can handle the latest alliance raid you should be able to handle an extreme. If you can't do that then you're not ready to move up. Creating a difficulty that is marginally different than normal isn't going to help that issue.

There can and should be content that sits between something like juneo and the current extremes, BA is an example from a difficulty perceptive (ie ignore its entry system), launch orbornne is, dalriada is, DRN is

If you still want to call that normal content that’s fine and I’d agree as it’s not that hard. But just because you can nearly sequester dal as casual and extreme as entry to hardcore doesn’t mean there isn’t still an ocean of potential content difficulty between dal and extremes

Yet the Extremes are ways and bounds more often than not in terms of difficulty compared to Alliance Raids. As a reminder: people praised the Althyk and Nymeia fight. Why? Because of a soft enrage timer. That was the one thing people liked and it felt 'challenging' on content to have something like that. However, we don't get that in our other Alliance Raids - ever. Only in that one instance has an Alliance Raid had an enrage at all. In all other content: Normal, Normal Raids, Expert? We don't get those. Regardless, unless you have a bridge to EX you aren't going to get them even potentially wanting to go to Savage Raids or higher; which is still on the player to decide what they're comfortable with.

Nobody praised a fight with an 8 minute enrage timer when a below average group could kill it in about 3 minutes

[CVXIV]

Nobody praised a fight with an 8 minute enrage timer when a below average group could kill it in about 3 minutes

wait the Althyk and Nymeia fight has an enrage timer?

That isn't me trying to be funny or anything, I genuinely didn't know that

as for the other comments yeah, I personally wouldn't consider Dalriada all that difficult or Delubrum Reginae but it's definitely a step up from your average dungeon or raid

[Supersnow845]

wait the Althyk and Nymeia fight has an enrage timer?

That isn't me trying to be funny or anything, I genuinely didn't know that

as for the other comments yeah, I personally wouldn't consider Dalriada all that difficult or Delubrum Reginae but it's definitely a step up from your average dungeon or raid

Yeah it’s that debuff the two get as soon as the fight starts that looks like a purple axe and has an 8 minute timer on it. If it hits zero before either die the two enrage and kill the entire raid

It’s just literally never relevant and would likely not even be relevant if it had half the duration

[caffe_macchiato]

Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd. will never read these forums. If we're lucky, they simply won't make any Chaotic raids again. But it's still six months until the foray content. And that will last you for two (2) years until the next expansion. There is no changing this. Everything until 8.0 is set in stone. And 8.0 will have the exact same problems as this expansion. It's Final Fantasy XIV. People need to accept that the game has simply run its course. Not to say it's a bad game, but it's complete. The content is done. Time for everyone to move on.

[FuturePastNow]

The first boss of Dun Scaith also has a soft enrage- it will eventually turn the entire platform into void death squares.

[CidHeiral]

Yet the Extremes are ways and bounds more often than not in terms of difficulty compared to Alliance Raids.

Depends on which alliance raids you're talking about. The Myths series was a pushover but I'd say Jueno is a great stepping stone to the current extremes.

As a reminder: people praised the Althyk and Nymeia fight. Why? Because of a soft enrage timer. That was the one thing people liked and it felt 'challenging' on content to have something like that. However, we don't get that in our other Alliance Raids - ever. Only in that one instance has an Alliance Raid had an enrage at all. In all other content: Normal, Normal Raids, Expert? We don't get those.

An enrage doesn't make a fight challenging if the mechanics leading up to that enrage are trivial, which was the case with Althyk/Nymeia. People were one-shotting that fight the night of release making any enrage timer completely irrelevant.

Likewise, as far as I'm aware the fights in Jueno have no enrage, but because the mechanics are more involved you regularly see people dropping like flies in there. That's preparing them for Extreme better than any enrage timer you'll never actually see.

Regardless, unless you have a bridge to EX you aren't going to get them even potentially wanting to go to Savage Raids or higher; which is still on the player to decide what they're comfortable with.

The bridge to EX is already there. If someone won't make that leap now then a new slightly different mode isn't going to change that.

There can and should be content that sits between something like juneo and the current extremes, BA is an example from a difficulty perceptive (ie ignore its entry system), launch orbornne is, dalriada is, DRN is

All of that is normal mode content. I'm not saying it shouldn't exist, I've done and enjoyed all of that content, but it's no different than the usual normal mode raid.

Now obviously everyone's perception of difficulty is different and on an individual basis someone could find some of those harder than others but that's going to be the case with anything. You have people on this forum complaining that the normal and expert dungeons are too hard and basically savage fights. That's a lot of why this whole hypothetical doesn't lead anywhere, there's never going to be a consensus. The devs can't make a separate difficulty for every person that plays the game, they have to draw the line somewhere. I think where it currently lies is more than reasonable for anyone genuinely interested in progressing.