We are missing Content between Normal and Extreme. Wrong Audience for Chaotic

[Strigine]

I stopped doing savage after Stormblood just because of how exhausting it was for me (as someone with no static) to find people to practise with, only for the party to disband before even getting to the part I needed to practise. And when I wanted more practice after clearing, I had to either look for completion PFs that didn't mind the loot penalty, or wait until the next week and risk underperforming. I loved the fights, but I got burnt out.

This sounds the same but on an even larger scale. After trying it twice, and then waiting hours the next day to try a third time, I realised it isn't for me. These days, I play FFXIV in shorts spurts. My subscription ran out two days ago.

When I was told that we're getting a chaotic alliance raid, I didn't know who the target audience is, but I was hoping for something along the lines of the second and third Mhach raids or any of the Ivalice raids at the time of their release, perhaps slightly harder. Those raids were some of the most fun I had healing in this game. Without the rigidity of high-end content, they were easy to hop into at any time, but they still required paying attention to what's going on around you. Mistakes could snowball, but never to the point where a single person, like a first-timer or someone struggling with mechanics, repeatedly caused wipes. You could often improvise to make up for mistakes.

I do appreciate Dawntrail making fights a bit more engaging, but it still feels like they either lose their bite within a week or so, or are the type that requires too much coordination and prior planning. There is no middle ground.

Here's Rabanastre and Ridorana on day 1, blind, DF (and yes, despite how it looks, we cleared before time ran out.) Even after people figured out the mechanics, HW and StB alliance raids (...that aren't the Void Ark) remained fun throughout the entire expansion.




Jeuno on day 1, blind, DF. Lots of deaths, but no real threat. Less than two months later, we're already trouncing the bosses.


This is my own experience. I understand it's anecdotal.

[Gurgeh]

I stopped doing savage after Stormblood just ...
months later, we're already trouncing the bosses.

No Strigine your experience isn't anecdotal, it's scientifically reproduceable fact. It's 100% of why I've left now my friends have. They can do it, Chaotic proved they have resources, but they choose to spend my sub on top 30% savage, who appear to hate me and my mistakes from what I can see. They choose not to. But savage gamers and their release schedule is sacrosanct, and I'm supposed to pay for them. Well I don't have to and I won't be exploited to dev their overturned 1000 mechanic instances anymore.

It's absolutely this. Just absolutely this. They can do it, challenging casual. They used to challenging casual. Old old aurum vale. Old keeper of lake. Dunscathe, Rabansstre 100%, and while the story of ShB wasn't the most popular and the mechanics, until it was totally OPd much of the Nier raids. Many more besides but you don't deserve my time.

But EW raids were a nothing in terms of gameplay.
I was overly kind because I wanted to enjoy it but Thaleia was dreadful. I MT tanked it on release day 1 blind, didn't KO , and there was not one wipe. I can assure it's not Skill (not with me). Final raid day 1, and no wipe.

The last DT alliance was a nothing.

As someone unsubbed I just don't count the next alliance as 'playable' content. It's more token "click continue" content. Same for the dungeons are the first play. The trails have been cool, but you give me no reason to reque, and what I'll get in rouls has no challenge with gear. Normals same with gear, and n reason to replay now I'm not subbed and don't need the gear for the next content. (A reminder, I consider the sub to be awful value for the TOTAL absence of challenging content by the time you factor +10/15 iLvl, and the lack of value you get with just one extreme with no rewards.(100 tokens in 50 toxic abandon PFs it's just not fun. The toxicity can be fixed if you want to incentivise the right behaviour)

[Orcasgt22]

Chaotic is the perfect bridge between EX and Savage. Its Savage mechanics but with EX forgiveness. 1 or two people screwing up every mech wont wipe and is clearable. The only issue is 24 man and all the frustrations that come with having 24 people in one group in an MMO. But mechanically and difficulty curve wise, perfect middle ground

[IvoryHawk]

Right, so...I'm just going to come out and say it: Chaotic is not meant for your average player. The problem? Chaotic is coordinated by 24 Players. THAT CAN'T SCREW UP.

Wait till the months over, there won't be many more prog parties for Chaotic even, as bad as it may sound, Chaotic would benefit what BA/DRS had, a community discord like late night chaos, coordinated runs with one (ONE) strat only, nobody is going to even want to do it with new people and just farm with clear only parties for better odds, am i saying that this game should rely on discords that help people prog and learn? nope, but this content will be dead without it soon enough sadly, just more tone deaf content that i've only streamers seem to be fawning over because they did it with their "community" for the most part, and think this is the best thing to happen to the game lmao.

[Kanehon]

[snip...] I do appreciate Dawntrail making fights a bit more engaging, but it still feels like they either lose their bite within a week or so, or are the type that requires too much coordination and prior planning. There is no middle ground.

snip

Absolutely agreed with both of you. The new alliance raid, I was enjoying it a bunch with all the deaths, and a few wipes, we had. I didn't get to do it day 1, but still ran it blind on release weekend.

Now that it's been a bit, no more wipes happen, a couple deaths here and there. But the hardest part now is looking at the damn sword AoE telegraph because it's way bigger than my screen and I can't see where the fuck is it pointing at.


Meanwhile, I don't see how savage raiders will want to carry sprouts through Chaotic just for a couple extra tokens.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Wait till the months over, there won't be many more prog parties for Chaotic even, as bad as it may sound, Chaotic would benefit what BA/DRS had, a community discord like late night chaos, coordinated runs with one (ONE) strat only, nobody is going to even want to do it with new people and just farm with clear only parties for better odds, am i saying that this game should rely on discords that help people prog and learn? nope, but this content will be dead without it soon enough sadly, just more tone deaf content that i've only streamers seem to be fawning over because they did it with their "community" for the most part, and think this is the best thing to happen to the game lmao.

Chaotic is the perfect bridge between EX and Savage. Its Savage mechanics but with EX forgiveness. 1 or two people screwing up every mech wont wipe and is clearable. The only issue is 24 man and all the frustrations that come with having 24 people in one group in an MMO. But mechanically and difficulty curve wise, perfect middle ground

The hardest part for me right now is just finding a party to join. For the last two nights, I have been on PF looking for a fresh prog group using the strat I want to learn. I spent an hour both nights looking and never could find one so I gave up and went to play marvel rivals instead. I even joined a CARCOD discord already and that has been helpful honestly bc unlike how BA was there is no queue system you can sign up and get pinged when I spot opens. Seems to me the fight is already dying down a bit or most are not doing fresh parties anymore and are already in P2. I know I could make my own PF but I really don't like making PFs bc I don't like having the responsibilities that come from being party lead, I would feel bad if I had to leave and disband a party after just an hour or so of prog. Yeah...Im going to try tonight but I have a feeling the hardest part of this will be and always be getting ppl to do it since it requires 3x as ppl as normal content.

Edited: Tried again today(1/3) and still no luck. 3 days in arow I cant find a single fresh prog party that using the strat I want to learn...guess tomorrow I just learn the other strat that I think is worst but wherever...I hate this content already

[TheGrimace]

I'm so done with having to do PF to maneuver into content. It sucks with 4 people, it sucks with 8 people, and and sure as hell sucks with 24 people.

[Espon]

My biggest issue with Chaotic is that people are simply unwilling to commit and learn. You wait 20 minutes for a group to form, you wipe once and someone leaves, then 5-9 other people leave and you're back to waiting for the group to refill.

However, what I don't understand is why all content needs to have just 1 difficulty. "Oh but raids have Normal and Savage" you say! Except the fights are designed completely different with Savage or Extreme sometimes having very little carried over from Normal. When you look at WoW, their raids have 4 difficulties. These aren't 4 differently designed encounters for each boss, but instead damage and boss HP is increased and more challenging mechanics are added to the mix. It would save a lot on development time not having to make multiple different fights for each boss. It would also give players of varying skill levels something to do instead of forcing mid-core players to wait 2.5 patch cycles for something challenging but not extremely unforgiving.

Take the new Chaotic Raid and split it into 3 difficulties and adjust the amount of demimateria and chests are awarded based on that. You'll have to up the price of equipment but it'll balance out, like say 8 for helm/glove/boots, 12 for chest/legs, and 396 for the Shroud of Darkness.

Normal mode: Chance of a chest per group with 1 coffer, minion or hairstyle inside. Awards 1 Clouddark Demimateria I.
Hard mode: Guaranteed chest with 1 coffer inside and chance of mount, minion, or hairstyle. Awards 3 Clouddark Demimateria I and 1 Clouddark Demimateria II.
Chaotic mode: Guaranteed chest with 2 coffers inside with higher chance for mount, minion, or hairstyle. Awards 8 Clouddark Demimateria I and 1 Clouddark Demimateria II, plus 2 bonus Clouddark Demimateria II for each player getting their first clear.

[TaleraRistain]

YHowever, we don't get that in our other Alliance Raids - ever. Only in that one instance has an Alliance Raid had an enrage at all. In all other content: Normal, Normal Raids, Expert? We don't get those.

That's not the only one in alliance or Normal raids. With every cast of Void Death IV on Deathgaze Hollow in Dun Scaith a square is taken away as a safe spot. When all squares are marked, Void Death IV will kill the raid because there will no more safe squares. Alexander Burden of the Son has a hard enrage at 10 minutes. Refurbisher 0 in Eyes of the Creator could also be considered to have enrage-like mechanics because if he rebuilds all his body parts his damage is enough to wipe the party. Irminsul in Void Ark gets a damage buff and a tick on a non-visible enrage meter every time an add or a player gets eaten. When it hits 100 on this meter, it will cast Rootstorm over and over until the raid is dead. That one isn't even that hard to trigger. Ignore the adds completely and you will see it. Proto Ultima in Dun Scaith will wipe the raid if his Supernova casts. Wicked Hypercannon on Wicked Thunder is a soft enrage.

And there are dungeon bosses like Halicarnassus in Haukke Manor HM with her third Beguiling Mist if you aren't already dead from the first two.

Some may rarely be triggered, but they're out there.