Don't do chaotic raid again

[Absurdity]

And what was the average ilvl in those runs?
Was it people in bis or 725 at minimum?
That doesn’t say much without that info just that it is salvageable.

It also doesn’t refute my point because I said that it is not as forgiving as people THOUGHT.

We're at the point in this raid tier where you can upgrade your crafted gear with infinitely farmable tomestones and get 730 tomestone gear with the alliance raid coins or infinitely farmable hunt currency.
There is literally no reason to not be 720+ when stepping into the chaotic 24man besides "I couldn't be bothered, teehee".

[Mawlzy]

We're at the point in this raid tier where you can upgrade your crafted gear with infinitely farmable tomestones and get 730 tomestone gear with the alliance raid coins or infinitely farmable hunt currency.
There is literally no reason to not be 720+ when stepping into the chaotic 24man besides "I couldn't be bothered, teehee".

I think this is right, but it emphasizes that this content is designed for raiders exclusively. And the issue with that is that the timing could not have been worse in terms of PR given the fact 80% of us have nothing to do.

[Absurdity]

I think this is right, but it emphasizes that this content is designed for raiders exclusively. And the issue with that is that the timing could not have been worse in terms of PR given the fact 80% of us have nothing to do.

Where does it emphasize that it is for raiders only? Because showing up in your mix of 710 normal raid, some 710 crafted that you bought 6 months ago, maybe a chestpiece from the alliance raid, no food and no potions isn't gonna cut it?
The chaotic raid technically only needs 710 to get in, but this is about actually trying and "actually trying" doesn't just mean you try to do your rotation correctly and not stand in the bad.

Every "casual" player is able to quite easily get 720+ ilvl and spend a few thousand gil on consumables, this is not an impossible ask unless you simply can't be bothered to because you "only play for fun".

[Lilapop]

Where does it emphasize that it is for raiders only? Because showing up in your mix of 710 normal raid, some 710 crafted that you bought 6 months ago, maybe a chestpiece from the alliance raid, no food and no potions isn't gonna cut it?
The chaotic raid technically only needs 710 to get in, but this is about actually trying and "actually trying" doesn't just mean you try to do your rotation correctly and not stand in the bad.

Every "casual" player is able to quite easily get 720+ ilvl and spend a few thousand gil on consumables, this is not an impossible ask unless you simply can't be bothered to because you "only play for fun".

Where does the new raid being released that is said to be Extreme/Savage difficulty emphasize that it is for raiders only? Hmm...

[Absurdity]

Where does the new raid being released that is said to be Extreme/Savage difficulty emphasize that it is for raiders only? Hmm...

The discussion I replied to was entirely about the enrage timer and ilvl requirement.
Nowhere am I claiming that executing the fight correctly is easy, just that showing up in the absolute minimum ilvl required and consequently wiping to minor mistakes is not "trying your best".

[Alice_Rivers]

Where does the new raid being released that is said to be Extreme/Savage difficulty emphasize that it is for raiders only? Hmm...

In fairness I recall it being introduced in the LL as "A Savage Alliance Raid", I think I would have preferred an Extreme Alliance Raid as the test for this concept but hey, I'm not a dev and according to people here I'm a casual too so you know...

I don't have a problem with people joining up in 710 gear and making a good faith effort to clear, I'd rather it were a little more forgiving of minor mistakes but hey, you work with what you've got. For my part I spent the last three or four hours getting more consistent on P1 and prog-ing P2 as best I can when a number of peeps fail the last couple of things in P1. Most of the people I'm finding in PF are in a similar phase and quite welcoming, or just abandon the PF as soon as a wipe happens which sucks but then why would you join "chill prog" if you're not chill?

[Lilapop]

In fairness I recall it being introduced in the LL as "A Savage Alliance Raid", I think I would have preferred an Extreme Alliance Raid as the test for this concept but hey, I'm not a dev and according to people here I'm a casual too so you know...

I don't have a problem with people joining up in 710 gear and making a good faith effort to clear, I'd rather it were a little more forgiving of minor mistakes but hey, you work with what you've got. For my part I spent the last three or four hours getting more consistent on P1 and prog-ing P2 as best I can when a number of peeps fail the last couple of things in P1. Most of the people I'm finding in PF are in a similar phase and quite welcoming, or just abandon the PF as soon as a wipe happens which sucks but then why would you join "chill prog" if you're not chill?

This raid, currently anyway, has called out the Savage raiders who normally do Savage content and more casual players who don't normally do content that's Savage level of difficulty and mixes everyone up together and expects it to go perfectly. Can the raid be cleared in and out of PF? Absolutely. Will most PFs clear this raid? Probably not. The people who typically do high-end raiding will get annoyed or fed-up with a "casual" making more mistakes than the typical savage raider and leave. The "casuals" will attempt it, might see the difficulty and figure out it's not for them, leave. Combined that with the typical PF toxicity and raiding toxicity that is present whether we all want to acknowledge it or not, and then add onto the fact that it's made for 24 people... yeah, the average PF is going to suffer. Players who don't typically do harder content are going to suffer (and therefore make the players who DO the harder content suffer too).

This raid has a targeted audience, like the Ultimate raid that came out right before this, and the savage tier that came out right before that. Whether it's "Extreme" or "Savage" isn't really relevant imo. Regardless, if someone is coming in and they primarily do MSQ, they (and therefore everyone else with them) is in for a rough time. The premise behind this content is great, the execution, so far, leaves a lot to be desired.

[Mawlzy]

Where does it emphasize that it is for raiders only? Because showing up in your mix of 710 normal raid, some 710 crafted that you bought 6 months ago, maybe a chestpiece from the alliance raid, no food and no potions isn't gonna cut it?
The chaotic raid technically only needs 710 to get in, but this is about actually trying and "actually trying" doesn't just mean you try to do your rotation correctly and not stand in the bad.

Every "casual" player is able to quite easily get 720+ ilvl and spend a few thousand gil on consumables, this is not an impossible ask unless you simply can't be bothered to because you "only play for fun".

I agree with you. I could run endless hunt trains and the alliance raid and upgrade to 720+, thereby obtaining gear that will be obsolete in a few months that I won't use for any content other than this one chaotic raid.

I am fine with this content not being for me. I would, however, like some content that is for me. And I guess I am a little sore about this partly because my favorite content - PvP - has just been royally effed up by the idiotic changes to hit detection.