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  1. #1
    Player
    Carighan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,643
    Character
    Carighan Maconar
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    but they should also be fine not ALWAYS being the top DPS because that’s equally unfair to every job that isn’t one of the 3 selfish jobs
    Why?

    Genuine question, why would that be as unfair as not being top DPS if you got no utility?
    (1)

  2. 12-20-2024 10:17 PM
    Reason
    Just wanted to delete my comment

  3. #3
    Player
    Aco505's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    958
    Character
    Aco Nale
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Carighan View Post
    Why?

    Genuine question, why would that be as unfair as not being top DPS if you got no utility?
    Damage buffs are not utility, they are a different way to deal damage. A NIN using Dokumori is simply creating damage by buffing everyone else but this damage is still there thanks to the NIN and the performance of all players involved in a fight. Utility is stuff like defensives or heals, either personal or group-wide.

    For balance reasons, non-buffing jobs ("selfish") should not be the best at (r)DPS in organized and optimized environments. They are already very good or the best in essentially every other situation: in (Criterion) dungeons, in disorganized environments such as roulettes or in PF from Extreme to Ultimate, and so on. They don't depend on the party in any way whatsoever to produce damage and buffs only make them stronger. Someone dying doesn't affect their output unless it causes a wipe or messes up a mechanic. Their damage stays consistent and their only job is to make sure their biggest hits are in buffs.

    For instance, despite the fact that it's in a weak state, MCH is pretty good in content such as Criterion or when progging a new Savage tier because others' deaths have no impact on the MCH's output, compared to DNC or BRD.

    A "selfish" job dealing more rDPS than a buffing job would mean that they're dealing more damage in a target dummy than a NIN buffing 8 people in an optimized comp. This should never happen. We already saw this in ShB with SAM and in EW with BLM.

    In theory, the "selfish" jobs' aDPS (which is the same as cDPS for them) would balance things out but in practice this won't be the case, particularly for BLM because while the job can save resources to deal a very good amount of potency in buffs, it cannot (and could not) do so all the time depending on the encounter. So BLM had to be buffed over and over to the point of becoming overpowered and additionally it is (or was) the only job that had to deal more rDPS than buffing jobs to compete damage-wise but this created the issue I explained above with my example of a NIN buffing a whole full party. It's more of a problem of battle content clashing with the way the job's damage profile works (before DT at least) and the devs applying band-aids to try and solve it.

    TL;DR. "Selfish" jobs being high cDPS-wise is fine if they happen to be there, but never in rDPS (with the exception of BLM). Encounter type will also play a role (e. g. "selfish" jobs are almost always better in Criterion by default).
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    Valence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    5,229
    Character
    Sunie Dakwhil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aco505 View Post
    For instance, despite the fact that it's in a weak state, MCH is pretty good in content such as Criterion or when progging a new Savage tier because others' deaths have no impact on the MCH's output, compared to DNC or BRD.
    Personally I don't really care if I lose raid buff party damage or not when progging a savage fight... The idea is just to learn and get through mechanics properly.
    Unless you meant for first clears... then I guess? But then if you don't, next run will be cleaner and you'll get it anyway?
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Aco505's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    958
    Character
    Aco Nale
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valence View Post
    Personally I don't really care if I lose raid buff party damage or not when progging a savage fight... The idea is just to learn and get through mechanics properly.
    Unless you meant for first clears... then I guess? But then if you don't, next run will be cleaner and you'll get it anyway?
    From another MCH main:

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenaya View Post
    [...] seeing it locked out of PFs is really quite insane when MCH is actually better in Party Finder due to a higher disparity of player skill and gear making BRD/DNC less valuable [...]
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Valence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    5,229
    Character
    Sunie Dakwhil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aco505 View Post
    From another MCH main:
    Fair enough, perhaps I'm too used to work within statics, I've dropped PF long ago after my first tier in Sigmascape... I can see selfish jobs faring a little better there.
    (0)