Do you think that Picto needs a nerf?

[Antoine_Lenheim]

Apparently, every single FRU clear has Picto. It outclasses everything else by such a huge margin, there's little to no reason to play black mage now, with Picto out. They need to nerf that class so bad, it's insane.

And if you look at the graph, it looks like ranged DPS need a major buff. It's shocking how lacking they are at the current level. Imagine you're apart of the majority that enjoys dancing, singing and being on a firing range. Your class is dead in the water.

[Supersnow845]

A few things here

PCT needs a nerf but it needs to be a specifically targeted nerf and unfortunately it won’t fix every problem

At its core PCT is a class functionally designed to destroy ultimates, there is no way to balance PCT in ultimates without fundamentally changing its design and completely ruining its flow in other content. The common suggestion of “only let it cast muses in uptime” simply does not work and would be a far worse balancing problem than currently because instead of being able to turn downtime into uptime it now has to turn prior phase uptime into downtime which is a far worse balance problem. Removing this quirk is also something that reduces the design of the best received class since 4.0

Now as for the actual nature of the nerf there is quite a few considerations you have to put into it. Here are a few

1) moving potency from the muses to the filler is a buff not a nerf in ultimates
2) removing the raid buff element of starry muse makes starry a dead button between level 70 and 92
3) the hammer combo is only a very slight PPS gain over filler so can’t be nerfed far
4) without mog/madeen creature is only a very slight gain

So the nerf would either have to slightly nerf the filler combo or nerf the items you stick inside the starry muse window (say nerfing star prism and rainbow drip). However buff feeding means that there will always be an element of PCT that dominates over the very static BLM

also of relevance is that pointing to ultimate is not always the best idea, of the current clears both SCH and AST as well as DRK are near as ubiquitous as PCT, top end players simply lean on a meta that tends to permeate the entire top end even if the differences aren’t as large as implied

[Antoine_Lenheim]

A few things here

PCT needs a nerf but it needs to be a specifically targeted nerf and unfortunately it won’t fix every problem

At its core PCT is a class functionally designed to destroy ultimates, there is no way to balance PCT in ultimates without fundamentally changing its design and completely ruining its flow in other content. The common suggestion of “only let it cast muses in uptime” simply does not work and would be a far worse balancing problem than currently because instead of being able to turn downtime into uptime it now has to turn prior phase uptime into downtime which is a far worse balance problem. Removing this quirk is also something that reduces the design of the best received class since 4.0

Now as for the actual nature of the nerf there is quite a few considerations you have to put into it. Here are a few

1) moving potency from the muses to the filler is a buff not a nerf in ultimates
2) removing the raid buff element of starry muse makes starry a dead button between level 70 and 92
3) the hammer combo is only a very slight PPS gain over filler so can’t be nerfed far
4) without mog/madeen creature is only a very slight gain

So the nerf would either have to slightly nerf the filler combo or nerf the items you stick inside the starry muse window (say nerfing star prism and rainbow drip). However buff feeding means that there will always be an element of PCT that dominates over the very static BLM

also of relevance is that pointing to ultimate is not always the best idea, of the current clears both SCH and AST as well as DRK are near as ubiquitous as PCT, top end players simply lean on a meta that tends to permeate the entire top end even if the differences aren’t as large as implied

I think its profile needs to be tweaked. Its far too bursty and can concentrate way too much damage into buffs, which exacerbates the problem in content like Ultimate where damage profiling is critical due to downtime and intermissions.

Take some out of its motifs/muse system and give it to other parts of the rotation. PCT would still be a very strong DPS and it would satisfy SEs balance philisophy, but its profile would be a little more challengable.

Separately, BLM needs a straight up buff.

[Supersnow845]

I think its profile needs to be tweaked. Its far too bursty and can concentrate way too much damage into buffs, which exacerbates the problem in content like Ultimate where damage profiling is critical due to downtime and intermissions.

Take some out of its motifs/muse system and give it to other parts of the rotation. PCT would still be a very strong DPS and it would satisfy SEs balance philisophy, but its profile would be a little more challengable.

Separately, BLM needs a straight up buff.

What would you “take out of its muse system and give to other parts”

PCT is designed around loading moves far in advance so it makes sense you can prep it long in advance

Simply moving potency out of muses into the filler BUFFS PCT in ultimates not nerfs it

[Realfoxy]

..

Apparently, every single FRU clear has Picto. It outclasses everything else by such a huge margin, there's little to no reason to play black mage now, with Picto out. They need to nerf that class so bad, it's insane.

And if you look at the graph, it looks like ranged DPS need a major buff. It's shocking how lacking they are at the current level. Imagine you're apart of the majority that enjoys dancing, singing and being on a firing range. Your class is dead in the water.

The graph you posted is rDPS, not cDPS, which understates how much PCT is actually ahead. When comparing jobs you need to consider more than just their own DPS + raidbuffs. Each job also contributes its own damage into other people's buffs.

So for example Picto's damage contribution is aDPS + (the damage starry muse gave to party). BLM's contribution is just its aDPS.

Also, don't use patch 7.1 data for comparing jobs. None of the good players are logging any more - for example you can compare PCT's damage numbers versus 7.05 and see that its damage has gone down. Again, that's because the good players aren't all doing parse runs or speedkills any longer.

[Antoine_Lenheim]

What would you “take out of its muse system and give to other parts”

PCT is designed around loading moves far in advance so it makes sense you can prep it long in advance

Simply moving potency out of muses into the filler BUFFS PCT in ultimates not nerfs it

To the contrary, the reason PCT is ubiquitous for this FRU release is due to to being more bursty than other jobs. Ultimate fights have a bunch of downtime, which gives PCT an advantage over jobs with less burst and more damage on the long run like BLM.

So, if you move potency from the muse on the fillers, it would nerf PCT in ultimate due to losing filler uses during downtime.

[Carighan]

Yeah, definitely. Not by a huuuuge margin, but I would take like 5% off their muses and instant casts, and then check whether another 2%-3% is needed off the subtractive pallette. This should curb the burst moderately, which in turn also curbs the excessive power gain from breaks in the fight. Without touching the underlying filler at all.

Considering how mobile and resistant to interruptions and intermissions the job is, it should absolutely not be on the top end of the DPS list.

(Mind you, neither should Black Mage, if you cast less hardcasts than a Summoner, go stand next to the Machinist please, or get rid of Transpose first)

So as a list:

* Hammer combo: -5% on each skill
* Holy in White: -5%
* Comet in Black: -5%
* Star Prism: -5%
* Rainbow Drip: Unsure, maybe 2%-3% down
* All 4 creature muses + the 2 creature oGCDs: -5%
* Magenta/Yellow/Cyan: Unsure, maybe 2% down

This would a) curb the burst by 3%-4%, b) curb overall damage by ~2%, c) reduce the gain from downtime in fights, d) make movement marginally more punishing.

[Supersnow845]

To the contrary, the reason PCT is ubiquitous for this FRU release is due to to being more bursty than other jobs. Ultimate fights have a bunch of downtime, which gives PCT an advantage over jobs with less burst and more damage on the long run like BLM.

So, if you move potency from the muse on the fillers, it would nerf PCT in ultimate due to losing filler uses during downtime.

No it would be a buff

Because when you use a motif in downtime that allows you to gain more filler GCD’s. A motif casted in downtime specifically gains you filler NOT motifs.

So if you buff the filler you are buffing the filler that you will gain by moving motifs into downtime

This means moving potency from motifs to filler is a slight nerf in full uptime (because you can’t burst as hard), but a massive gain in high downtime

[Antoine_Lenheim]

No it would be a buff

Because when you use a motif in downtime that allows you to gain more filler GCD’s. A motif casted in downtime specifically gains you filler NOT motifs.

So if you buff the filler you are buffing the filler that you will gain by moving motifs into downtime

This means moving potency from motifs to filler is a slight nerf in full uptime (because you can’t burst as hard), but a massive gain in high downtime

No. You can already use motifs during downtime, and the damage gained by the fillers would be lost by the muses in question. All you'd do in full uptime / low downtime is moving some potency from burst (muses) to fillers.

But in high downtime, after using your motifs, you'd still be in downtime, unable to do any damage. And what would you be dropping then? The fillers. Which means the more damage on the fillers, the more damage you drop.

[Supersnow845]

No. You can already use motifs during downtime, and the damage gained by the fillers would be lost by the muses in question. All you'd do in full uptime / low downtime is moving some potency from burst (muses) to fillers.

But in high downtime, after using your motifs, you'd still be in downtime, unable to do any damage. And what would you be dropping then? The fillers. Which means the more damage on the fillers, the more damage you drop.

What you are doing here is comparing a fight with no downtime to one with downtime and then making the logical connection that a flatter damage profile constitutes a nerf when there is high downtime. However while this is true it’s not the comparison being made. The comparison being made is between PCT as it’s designed right now and PCT if you moved muse potency to filler

Since you can use muses during downtime every muse you move into downtime gains you filler, if the filler is buffed at the expense of the muses you only gain because you gain filler by putting muses into downtime but you lose nothing to the lower muse potency because they were already being used in downtime

So if the filler was buffed at the expense of the muses the more downtime you have the stronger PCT gets relative to other classes because it’s uptime filler is relatively stronger than it is now but muse potency is still flat downtime gain because you aren’t “dropping filler” relative to the other classes if everyone is in downtime