Do you think that Picto needs a nerf?

[Supersnow845]

OK, well first I actually think a 10% gap is probably too large for me, but I don't mind a like, 5-7% gap if we actually get some decent job identity. Right now we don't have job identity, we have every single job building to a burst in buffs every two minutes.

And you still haven't actually articulated an argument for why selfish DPS shouldn't be ahead in each expansion. I mean "we can't have selfish DPS ahead because of people whining on the forums" isn't an argument. You said BLM always ahead is "actively restrictive". It's funny you mention that because even when BLM has historically been overpowered, we've never had a tier where BLM was the dominating caster DPS.

RE: NIN and DRG, I consider them to be on the same level as SAM in that they do not offer any extra utility. SAM has a personal mit, just like NIN has a personal mit. It's arguably DRG who's getting a bit shafted here.

But yeah, if you want PCT ahead in burst and cDPS while BLM beats it in full uptime and rDPS, I guess that's fair. It depends on the amounts, I guess.


One final thing: People keep talking about class identity and numerical balance being in some kind of irresolvable tension. I personally think that while they are in tension people overrate how much this actually matters.



This was Eden's Promise. Now ignore the phys ranged and this chart looks pretty good. See how small the spread is? This isn't some unattainable ideal. We had jobs with clear identities and good balance and it wasn't even that long ago!

We’ve kinda reached a natural conclusion of everything above the linked photo so I’ll leave that off there other than say my argument for why the selfish DPS shouldn’t always be first is exactly the same reason you have for why you don’t always want PCT being first. Because if every job is a DPS and different fights reward different types of jobs then selfish DPS always being first is just a messy and restrictive balancing decision. How do you make BLM ahead in FRU for example? but I will say if your yardstick for “diverse jobs” is edens promise we are discussing things that are functionally worlds away and you had to exclude the phys ranged to even make that point

[Realfoxy]

We’ve kinda reached a natural conclusion of everything above the linked photo so I’ll leave that off there other than say my argument for why the selfish DPS shouldn’t always be first is exactly the same reason you have for why you don’t always want PCT being first. Because if every job is a DPS and different fights reward different types of jobs then selfish DPS always being first is just a messy and restrictive balancing decision. How do you make BLM ahead in FRU for example? but I will say if your yardstick for “diverse jobs” is edens promise we are discussing things that are functionally worlds away and you had to exclude the phys ranged to even make that point

Oh, when I meant I want BLM ahead, I just meant it should be ahead in rDPS + cDPS on like, all Savage fights. That would give you room for an adjusted PCT (to be less bursty) to exist and be favored overall in something like FRU. With BLM having rDPS there could be phases like FRU intermission or TOP P4 that favour its design while PCT does better in others.

RE: ShB job design vs Stormblood and earlier - I'm sympathetic to the idea that we had more diverse job design in SB, but I don't think we're ever going back to that era of job + fight design.

[Reginald_Cain]

We’ve kinda reached a natural conclusion of everything above the linked photo so I’ll leave that off there other than say my argument for why the selfish DPS shouldn’t always be first is exactly the same reason you have for why you don’t always want PCT being first. Because if every job is a DPS and different fights reward different types of jobs then selfish DPS always being first is just a messy and restrictive balancing decision. How do you make BLM ahead in FRU for example? but I will say if your yardstick for “diverse jobs” is edens promise we are discussing things that are functionally worlds away and you had to exclude the phys ranged to even make that point

Ok i hear what you mean about the danger to comp diversity and job options that could arise should selfish dps all be so strong you need atleast one to carry a raid with buff stacking. It's not healthy. I believe Realfoxy and I just have an issue with how the non samurai selfish dps feel really underwhelming for some reason. I can't speak for realfoxy but i just want skills like drill 600 potency, and flare star 400 potency after 6 fire fours/ two flares, to feel good to use in high level content. flare star would only need 20 potency to be as strong as two flares. drill feels great at lower levels but it should be equal in potency to standard finish on dancer. I'd also like high fire 2 to be a much stronger spell that interacted more with flare and flare star.