Damage gap closer should vanish

[Carighan]

Personally I disagree with "mobility skills should never do damage" because it adds actual strategy to holding or spending those mobility skills it's rigid design for sure but some level of that is good with jobs, I think we've gone way too much in the direction of making everything all samey and sanitised.

In a lot of ways dual-skills like that are very smart design. Of course gaining uptime is usually the highest gain of DPS, so that's the best use of a gapcloser, but do you really want to hold one for that? -> Actual in-fight decisionmaking

The reason it doesn't work comes from a wholly different direction: Melee DPS, and their lack of emotional stability. So as melees struggled with the "classic" melee balance (significantly higher DPS output but significant lack of uptime lest you die in many fights), modern fights are designed for ~100% melee uptime. And as a result, there's never a reason for a tank to hold back a (damaging) gapcloser to actually gapclose with. That second part is what is missing! If we had a need to close gaps in fights, gapcloser balance would be interesting if they also deal damage!

[Arohk]

modern fights are designed for ~100% melee uptime.

Wicked Thunder would disagree.

[Carighan]

Wicked Thunder would disagree.

Oh, those 15s not being in melee range in a 12 minute fight make all the difference, I'm sure! Call off the design team, M4S is basically a ranged-only fight!

(and even then, it's difficult to find much else, and this is in Dawntrial, which already marginally improved the design over Endwalker!)

[Valence]

Melee DPS when they're asked to actually deal with their ranged constraints is really something to behold those days.

[Rithy255]

In a lot of ways dual-skills like that are very smart design. Of course gaining uptime is usually the highest gain of DPS, so that's the best use of a gapcloser, but do you really want to hold one for that? -> Actual in-fight decisionmaking

The reason it doesn't work comes from a wholly different direction: Melee DPS, and their lack of emotional stability. So as melees struggled with the "classic" melee balance (significantly higher DPS output but significant lack of uptime lest you die in many fights), modern fights are designed for ~100% melee uptime. And as a result, there's never a reason for a tank to hold back a (damaging) gapcloser to actually gapclose with. That second part is what is missing! If we had a need to close gaps in fights, gapcloser balance would be interesting if they also deal damage!

I do remember saving gap closer in m2s a lot because you had to disengage a lot for that fight, theirs actually a lot of instances where you should be keeping gap closer in modern design, I haven't attempted the new ultimate or m4s yet so I might not have knowledge on those fights, I'm a fairly casual raider.

At least for me theirs been a lot of cases where I do actually want to save gap closer, but it's very fight dependent, which is something I like.

[Arohk]

I do remember saving gap closer in m2s a lot because you had to disengage a lot for that fight, theirs actually a lot of instances where you should be keeping gap closer in modern design, I haven't attempted the new ultimate or m4s yet so I might not have knowledge on those fights, I'm a fairly casual raider.

M4 has A LOT of mechanics where you have to get out of melee range, thats why Paladin is by far the best tank for this fight, you can always keep Holy spirit for when you have to move away from the boss, gunbreaker has the hardest time there.

[Oizen]

M4 has A LOT of mechanics where you have to get out of melee range, thats why Paladin is by far the best tank for this fight, you can always keep Holy spirit for when you have to move away from the boss, gunbreaker has the hardest time there.

It does? Like theres some but its not major.

Off the top of my head theres:
Bewitching Flight: Miss like 1GCD as you step to the wall or back
Witch Hunt can be timed pretty well to not miss a GCD if you're fast
EE2: Can either be miss nothing or miss 1 GCD depending on what you roll, should be noted that you short lightings can just stand in the long 2 lightnings effect for uptime at the low cost of an additional bleed
Then you don't see melee specific downtime until all the way into Chain Lightning, which is again is RNG if you even miss anything.


This is an improvement over Endwalker for sure, but I still wouldn't say this is enough to make Phys Range even on par with Melees.
Infact its so little that Dark Knights singular ranged GCD (that isnt unmend) ends up covering Chain Lightning if you get a bad pattern so I've honestly never felt like I wasnt just hitting the boss nonstop.

[Carighan]

until all the way into Chain Lightning, which is again is RNG if you even miss anything.

And I had someone weave perfectly around the AoEs of that today, which was a sight to behold. And I already had swiftcast pressed to rezz them! xD