Damage gap closer should vanish

[SWATomega]

If you need a dash for mobility later, then why are you using it in your opener? That's the whole concept of opportunity cost abilities. And you have 3 charges as well those days. 3 whole charges. I can get that for a question of tastes one may not like this kind of strategic consideration (personally I'm neither hot nor cold about it so I don't really care), but mechanically it's sound.

For dungeon pulls, maybe I'm old school but why are dashes suddenly needed and such a big deal? Why do tanks need dashes to pull stuff those days? Isn't ranged/voke into AoE enough and how it's always worked?

The example i used was for Savage content where every bit of damage is a make-it-or break-it for a clear or not, to squeeze every bit of damage out. But that is also a problem where we need to use a utility option to be able to clear and we don't get the luxury to hold our dashes for re-engagement.

For the dungeon pulls, it is for the benefit of it being OGCD that allows for an easy follow-up with an AoE, it is a change of habit for tanks at high levels to get in as fast as we can gather up all the add packs and start to AoE them down. So the dash into AoE is just more convenient for this style. Why have the enemy come to us when it is so much easier to go to them.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The example i used was for Savage content where every bit of damage is a make-it-or break-it for a clear or not, to squeeze every bit of damage out. But that is also a problem where we need to use a utility option to be able to clear and we don't get the luxury to hold our dashes for re-engagement.

OK, I'm getting really tired of this rethoric being said ad nauseam, so let's actually talk about it.

1.) We were given the Charge system in Shadowbringers specifically so we have the luxury to hold dashes for re-engagement without outright losing potency from losing recasts (drifting the CD unused). The only reason you guys are complaining about this is because of how fixated you are on the damage metric of stuffing everything into a condensed burst window at all costs.

2.) The three jobs with damaging OGCD dashes are currently Paladin, Warrior and Red Mage. I'm not counting Samurai, because their's is damage neutral to their ffiller spender. Going by a 120s burst window with a combined +28,8% damage boost (AST, MNK, NIN, DNC, PCT) from raid buffs, let's actually break down what you "lose" if you drop a charge outside of the burst window:

• Paladin's Intervene is on 30s recharge @ 2 charges doing 150 potency + you have a personal burst every 60s, you gotta make choices if 1-2x Holy Spirit (400p, 500p with Divine Might) isn't enough.
  Math (Burst window): 150p * 1.25 (FoF) * 1.288 (raid buffs) - 150p = 91.5 potency gain during a raid buff window
  Math (FoF-only): 150p * 1.25 - 150p = 37.5 potency gained during a Fight or Flight window.
  
  An auto attack is like 100 potency. Your Fight or Flight window every minute is ~8160 base potency, ~10200 with Fight or Flight unconditionally, without either charge of your dash used. Tell me, does losing 38-92 potency per charge matter if this is what you drop out every minute at Lv100? Crit variance on a Fast Blade has a bigger impact than this.
  -
• Warrior's Onslaught is on 30s recharge @ 3 charges doing 150 potency, with no personal burst window that affects Onslaught. So at most, 2min raidbuff contribution can be taken into account here.
  
  150p * 1,288 * 1.1 (self buff) - 150p = 62.5p per Onslaught gained under raid buffs (43p without Surging Tempest). Your base burst without Onslaught (8 GCDs, with 2x Inner Chaos + 1x normal Fell Cleave) if done right does about 10703 potency (Crit-DH multiplier x1,9875, ignoring DH bonus damage from DH stat because math hard), 11774p with Surging Tempest. Moving an Onslaught or even two per 2min window has negligible impact to your DPS contribution, especially when looking the whole party's damage output as a whole.
  -
• Red Mage's Corps-a-Corps is on 35s recharge @ 2 charges doing 169 potency (130 + 30% Magic & Mend trait), plus you are a caster so you don't even "need" it as utility most of the time anyways, you could just walk up to a boss half the time for melee attacks after a dualcast.
  
  Red Mage's 120s burst (2x Verflare/Holy, 2x Scorch, 2x Resolution, 1x Melee combo, 1x Fleche + Contre + Corps + Engagement, Vice of Thorns, Prefulgence) is 11733 potency with Maim & Mend II, including your own Embolden applying to all applicable attacks. This leads to 15313 potency under raid buffs + Spear card from AST. This leads to a 49 potency gain for a Corps-a-Corps if you drop it under a raid buff window. Surely the message should be clear by now.

Conclusion: At Lv100, your total damage contribution of your dashes in your burst windows is so utterly negligible, you will lose MORE damage by drifting your GCD if you make a mistake and not have a dash (let alone two) when it would help you keep your uptime/avoid weaker ranged attacks.

So let's PLEASE stop repeating about how in savage "every bit of damage counts". My brother/sister in christ, your crit/DH variance and even auto attack uptime will have a bigger impact than losing potency from not having dashes under a raid buff, it's not even funny at this point.

[Carighan]

We were given the Charge system in Shadowbringers specifically so we have the luxury to hold dashes for re-engagement without outright losing potency from losing recasts (drifting the CD unused). The only reason you guys are complaining about this is because of how fixated you are on the damage metric of stuffing everything into a condensed burst window at all costs.

I mean as much as I agree that focusing on damage has ~0 use outside of Ultimate as none of the current bosses (M3S is the tighest but even that is quite relaxed) are in any way a DPS check, it was Square that made it all about that holy 120s burst window and DPS optimization in lieu of anything else.

It's their game design, I wouldn't fault players for playing it the way the devs clearly intend it to be played.

You are of course correct that optimizing gapclosers (except maybe Red Mage because that's when you need them anyways since your burst is melee but your job is not) into burst is usually worth maybe 3-4 autoattacks over a whole raid fight for a tank and like one extra crit for a Red Mage, if even that. But I still would not say players are weird for optimizing them into the burst, since that's where the devs want them to be used (otherwise they would have either designed the burst or the gapclosers differently).

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

-numbers-

Hi, I'm just gonna pull up my post from like a few pages prior for a more comprehensive analysis about potencies. Feel like it may benefit when people may argue for or against it.

OK, I'm getting really tired of this rethoric being said ad nauseam, so let's actually talk about it.

1.) We were given the Charge system in Shadowbringers specifically so we have the luxury to hold dashes for re-engagement without outright losing potency from losing recasts (drifting the CD unused). The only reason you guys are complaining about this is because of how fixated you are on the damage metric of stuffing everything into a condensed burst window at all costs.

2.) The three jobs with damaging OGCD dashes are currently Paladin, Warrior and Red Mage. I'm not counting Samurai, because their's is damage neutral to their ffiller spender. Going by a 120s burst window with a combined +28,8% damage boost (AST, MNK, NIN, DNC, PCT) from raid buffs, let's actually break down what you "lose" if you drop a charge outside of the burst window:

• Paladin's Intervene is on 30s recharge @ 2 charges doing 150 potency + you have a personal burst every 60s, you gotta make choices if 1-2x Holy Spirit (400p, 500p with Divine Might) isn't enough.
  Math (Burst window): 150p * 1.25 (FoF) * 1.288 (raid buffs) - 150p = 91.5 potency gain during a raid buff window
  Math (FoF-only): 150p * 1.25 - 150p = 37.5 potency gained during a Fight or Flight window.
  
  An auto attack is like 100 potency. Your Fight or Flight window every minute is ~8160 base potency, ~10200 with Fight or Flight unconditionally, without either charge of your dash used. Tell me, does losing 38-92 potency per charge matter if this is what you drop out every minute at Lv100? Crit variance on a Fast Blade has a bigger impact than this.
  -
• Warrior's Onslaught is on 30s recharge @ 3 charges doing 150 potency, with no personal burst window that affects Onslaught. So at most, 2min raidbuff contribution can be taken into account here.
  
  150p * 1,288 * 1.1 (self buff) - 150p = 62.5p per Onslaught gained under raid buffs (43p without Surging Tempest). Your base burst without Onslaught (8 GCDs, with 2x Inner Chaos + 1x normal Fell Cleave) if done right does about 10703 potency (Crit-DH multiplier x1,9875, ignoring DH bonus damage from DH stat because math hard), 11774p with Surging Tempest. Moving an Onslaught or even two per 2min window has negligible impact to your DPS contribution, especially when looking the whole party's damage output as a whole.
  -
• Red Mage's Corps-a-Corps is on 35s recharge @ 2 charges doing 169 potency (130 + 30% Magic & Mend trait), plus you are a caster so you don't even "need" it as utility most of the time anyways, you could just walk up to a boss half the time for melee attacks after a dualcast.
  
  Red Mage's 120s burst (2x Verflare/Holy, 2x Scorch, 2x Resolution, 1x Melee combo, 1x Fleche + Contre + Corps + Engagement, Vice of Thorns, Prefulgence) is 11733 potency with Maim & Mend II, including your own Embolden applying to all applicable attacks. This leads to 15313 potency under raid buffs + Spear card from AST. This leads to a 49 potency gain for a Corps-a-Corps if you drop it under a raid buff window. Surely the message should be clear by now.

Conclusion: At Lv100, your total damage contribution of your dashes in your burst windows is so utterly negligible, you will lose MORE damage by drifting your GCD if you make a mistake and not have a dash (let alone two) when it would help you keep your uptime/avoid weaker ranged attacks.

So let's PLEASE stop repeating about how in savage "every bit of damage counts". My brother/sister in christ, your crit/DH variance and even auto attack uptime will have a bigger impact than losing potency from not having dashes under a raid buff, it's not even funny at this point.