Pld buff or War nerf in 1.22?

[Vanguard319]

Started off as my only job as PLD. Tanked Ifrit people beat it however people did have to hold back on damage. I leveled WAR because they were out tanking PLD so badly on everything. I tanked Ifrit again and nobody even came close to pulling him off and they can go all out. Mainly due to the fact that so much enmity in this game is generated by damage.

I would like to tank on PLD again when they fix it.

According to the patch notes, it looks like they fixed the block rate for shields, so they absorb more dmg. (and reduce enmity loss)

looks like you'll get your wish.

[cyborgmermaid]

Awesome, now I can go back to being a MRD/WAR in town without looking like a total sheep again.
If anything really needs to be nerfed though, it's that people can max level a job in a couple days. That the "flavor of the month", as this game is ending up being, can be leveled just like that is ridiculous. And the fact that anyone has every job at max level shows the whole game is broken :\

[DeadRiser]

So happy for this. Warrior and steel cyclone was begging for a nerf, but whirlwind is very low on damage ;-; Collusion was pretty OP. THIS IS ALL COMING FROM A WARRIOR.

Nice to see additions to Dragoon and Paladin. Happy Miq'ote dance.

[Tetsaru]

PLD doesn't need more damage with its weaponskills (although having to hit an enemy from behind for a combo action while you're tanking it IS pretty stupid), it just needs unparalleled enmity control. As I've said before, you can have as much HP, VIT, and defense (and damage for that matter) as you want, but if the enemy doesn't stay focused on you, then it doesn't matter, and you're not doing your job as a tank.

Right now, whoever does the most damage or cures a lot tends to get the most enmity, and that's not how it should be, in my opinion. The moves like Collusion and Antagonize that WAR has would be nice, but really, PLD needs abilities that FORCE an enemy to attack you, regardless of other players' enmity, and then keep it that way for the duration of the fight. They don't need weaponskills that do more damage, because that's WAR, MNK, and DRG's job. They don't need more healing because that's WHM's job. PLD needs more enmity control - the tank's job.

The only changes I would make to WAR is probably swap their HP with PLD so that PLD has the most survivability once they've got the mob's attention. WAR can keep its Steel Cyclone the way it is for taking out multiple mobs, but with less HP, it'd have to be more careful when doing so, along with it already being slower and less accurate than other DD's. But PLD's enmity generation needs to SERIOUSLY be bumped up... and NOT through damage output. That just leads to power creep, and PLD isn't meant for DD'ing, it's meant for being the best tank, period.

I want to be able to use something like Flash ONCE on Ifrit, and then not get hate pulled off of me while all the other 7 party members are going all out with their spells, weaponskills, and cures. I don't care about how much damage I'm doing; I care about how often my blocks and parries are going off. I care about how much damage I'm mitigating. I care about keeping the enemy FOCUSED ON ME, away from the rest of the party, and holding hate for the entire fight and not losing it once just because a BLM cast Thundara like they were supposed to, or a WAR used Steel Cyclone to hit everything like it was supposed to. Why can't PLD effectively do what it's supposed to do as well?

[Aceofspades]

enmity control is the party's responsability, thus freeze, chamelion, -enmity materia, ect.... as far as hate controll gose, one low lvl teir 4 touch of rage materia now adds 20 enmity... and touch of serinty is -15 enmity.... fail to see how hate controll is still broken? i never lost hate when that materia on my belt only had +8 enmity. the main job of the tank is to keep everyone else alive by NOT DIEING, PLD dose this best. any thm at any time can steal hate from ANY tank if they wanted to. takes co operation to controll hate. I know I know, people working together in a party situation to get somthing done... crazy right?

[Tetsaru]

enmity control is the party's responsability, thus freeze, chamelion, -enmity materia, ect.... as far as hate controll gose, one low lvl teir 4 touch of rage materia now adds 20 enmity... and touch of serinty is -15 enmity.... fail to see how hate controll is still broken? i never lost hate when that materia on my belt only had +8 enmity. the main job of the tank is to keep everyone else alive by NOT DIEING, PLD dose this best. any thm at any time can steal hate from ANY tank if they wanted to. takes co operation to controll hate. I know I know, people working together in a party situation to get somthing done... crazy right?

I totally understand that, but just FYI, I had around +50 enmity on my current PLD gear, including a Cobalt Winglet with materia, Thormoen's Purpose, a Coral Armillae +1, Stonewall Earrings, and a mix of both AF and Sentinel's gear, and I STILL get hate pulled off of me after using all of my enmity-generating moves simply because more damage equates to more enmity. As WAR, I use a lot of the same or similar +enmity gear, yet I rarely have issues, and obviously WAR does more damage than PLD. If making PLD's weaponskills do more damage fixes the problem, then I'm all for it; however, I don't believe that would be a proper way to do it. PLD just needs significantly more enmity than all the other jobs, regardless of damage output, period. They're not meant to DD, they're meant to tank. We have plenty of other jobs capable of churning out high damage. I don't think it's fair to all the other jobs when on PLD I have to say, "Okay guys, stop doing damage because I can't hold hate otherwise," yet when I'm tanking with WAR, everyone can pretty much go all out. Needless to say, something is inherently wrong with this, and it needs to be fixed, otherwise PLD will end up relatively useless again compared to other jobs, like it was in FF11 (at least, from what I've heard compared to Ninja tanks... ridiculous... ).

As for the boosts to enmity materia, I'm still downloading the 1.22 patch at the moment, but hopefully that will help a bit, although I highly doubt it because WAR and PLD both use +enmity gear, or gear that can have +enmity materia attached to it. I shouldn't have to try and double- or triple-meld +enmity materia to all my gear, or bust my ass hunting for a full set of Heavy Darklight gear JUST so I'll have enough enmity to be able to hold hate compared to everyone else's damage and cures.

[Hoshikogi]

PLD doesn't need more damage with its weaponskills (although having to hit an enemy from behind for a combo action while you're tanking it IS pretty stupid), it just needs unparalleled enmity control.

I agree with this. Increasing Paladin's damage goes against their image. Adding mini-provokes to their weapon skills and increasing their emity from heal/wards appears more appropriate.

Yoshida-San, those GLA back-attacks you mentioned and are bent on improving seems more appropriate for a darker GLA sub-job. If PLD has to resort to such demonic attacks to hold hate, then I believe the PLD is not performing their job appropriatly.

[Aion]

I totally understand that, but just FYI, I had around +50 enmity on my current PLD gear, including a Cobalt Winglet with materia, Thormoen's Purpose, a Coral Armillae +1, Stonewall Earrings, and a mix of both AF and Sentinel's gear, and I STILL get hate pulled off of me after using all of my enmity-generating moves simply because more damage equates to more enmity. As WAR, I use a lot of the same or similar +enmity gear, yet I rarely have issues, and obviously WAR does more damage than PLD. If making PLD's weaponskills do more damage fixes the problem, then I'm all for it; however, I don't believe that would be a proper way to do it. PLD just needs significantly more enmity than all the other jobs, regardless of damage output, period. They're not meant to DD, they're meant to tank. We have plenty of other jobs capable of churning out high damage. I don't think it's fair to all the other jobs when on PLD I have to say, "Okay guys, stop doing damage because I can't hold hate otherwise," yet when I'm tanking with WAR, everyone can pretty much go all out. Needless to say, something is inherently wrong with this, and it needs to be fixed, otherwise PLD will end up relatively useless again compared to other jobs, like it was in FF11 (at least, from what I've heard compared to Ninja tanks... ridiculous... ).

As for the boosts to enmity materia, I'm still downloading the 1.22 patch at the moment, but hopefully that will help a bit, although I highly doubt it because WAR and PLD both use +enmity gear, or gear that can have +enmity materia attached to it. I shouldn't have to try and double- or triple-meld +enmity materia to all my gear, or bust my ass hunting for a full set of Heavy Darklight gear JUST so I'll have enough enmity to be able to hold hate compared to everyone else's damage and cures.

/aceofspade mode on
learn2play
/aceofspade mode off

[Aceofspades]

wait, soo a well equiped DD is obviously pulling hate becuase it kicking Iffys ass, your saying you shouldnt have to invest the same amount of effort into your gear as tank to do well? It works like this, If BLM 1 can steal less hate and deal the same amount of dammage as BLM 2 then effectivly BLM 1 is doing more damage because he/she is spending less time cooling off hate or running from the mob they just pulled off the tank, or dead on the ground due to agro. The tank can do all he/she can do, but any DD can pull hate off a tank if they were well equiped and wanted to. saying you shouldnt have to invest into your gear but you want the highest dps as you can possably get is same as saying, " hey guys double and triple stack int, magic attk, enmity down , lighting potency ,ect ect and do as much damage as you can, Im just gona roll with AF gear cuz I shouldnt have to put in the same investment... see what Im getting at? if you make the engine faster better have awsome breaks too.

[Darkillumina]

For what should have been done see my post on page 11. As a caveat they should increase enmity generation on pally in addition to what I suggested in my previous post. Or completely rework the way enmity is calculated.

With regards to the proposed changes on Warrior....

The DD buff MUST be significant enough on warrior to make up for Steel Cyclone. Without Steel cyclone, warrior damage was lol worthy at best when compared to every other DD out there. TP gain was/is very slow on a warrior and the timer on steel cyclone was necessary to keep up with other DD in significant fights. (I'm not talking about spamming it on trash mobs.)

There are two logical outcomes to the forthcoming warrior nerf/buff.

1. DD buff is insignificant. This coupled with the SC nerf leads to Warrior being ostracized if a PLD tank becomes strongly superior to a WAR Tank. Nobody will want it for DD if it cannot keep up with other jobs and will prefer a pally for tanking.

2. DD Buff is significant enough to make it a viable DD. As there is no nerf on HP or Def on a Warrior, it will still have access to most of its hate generating abilities and when carefully coupled with the buff on various DD skills will allow warrior to keep up a steady stream of different weapon skills which in turn means it will be a more efficient tank than a pally due to superior damage generation. Only real difference is that instead of constant steel cyclone spam you will have to rotate in other combos as appropriate.

I really think SE is treading the wrong path here with these fixes. I want PLD to be a great tank as I am close to capping it and enjoy tanking and really want to utilize it in end game set-ups. I also want it to have a strong dual identity as warrior currently does. (See last post)

Nerfing warrior was not the best solution but it was the easiest and as always that's what SE chose.