Thread: Pld buff or War nerf in 1.22?

Originally Posted by Tetsaru

I never said that. I meant that having +50 enmity compared to everyone else who has LESS enmity stats than I do SHOULD mean that I have better hate control over them in general, right? However, since raw damage output and curing seem to carry more weight over +enmity gear, this is not the case. What I'm saying is, from my experience, apparently DD's wearing mostly AF gear at LV50 compared to my +enmity gear setup prevent me from holding hate when we're BOTH doing our jobs properly. I can have Flash, Provoke, Rampart, etc. constantly on cooldown through constant use, AND use my +enmity combo moves, and still not be able to keep hate over other DD's who are using their own combos/weaponskills.

So, is it MY fault that I can't keep hate, or is it the DDs' fault? And if it's the DDs' fault, then why should they always have to hold back just so that I can properly play PLD, yet they don't have to do so if I'm on WAR - just because WAR does more damage than PLD? Someone please answer that for me.

it is SE fault and they are fixing it.

Originally Posted by Rydin

The case can be made that if a DD is preventing you from holding hate then they aren't doing their job properly

True, but then again, I don't see the point in having a job do absolutely nothing just so you can do your own.

If the DD's are pumping out damage constantly, but the PLD can't hold hate, then essentially the DD's ARE doing their job, but the PLD ISN'T doing his job because he can't tank and hold hate. Likewise, if the PLD IS holding hate and tanking, but the DD's are having to hold back in order for the PLD to do so, then the DD's technically aren't doing their job, which is to deal high amounts of damage.

Either way, there is something wrong, and it could easily be fixed in my opinion if PLD could just generate significantly more enmity, and not have it be based purely on damage output or healing like everything else.

Originally Posted by Aceofspades

I am sorry if I am having a hard time understanding your point of veiw simply because , and if this is a low number plz let me know, with a all blm/thm dd party the avg damage done between all 5 of the blm/thms is roughly 15-20k , I still manage to keep hate well. I think the hardest hitting blm in the group grabs Ifrit early but thats becuase she gets excited and forgets about freeze :P. All that and we get a 7 minute speed run, and I will take roughly 20-22k damage on avg now with devine veil being soo awsome. And I only had +8 enmity. I know hate controll on PLD is ok because it takes my best WAR with DPS gear on over half the fight to steal hate from me. After that he keeps hate ofcourse but that with him trying to steal hate...maybe our play styles are diffrent. not saying your wrong just different.

WOAH WOAH WOAH! I'm starting to see why your not having tanking issues right there! Ifrit has a little over 32.7k HP, if five BLM's are only averaging 15-20K total that means three non DD people are doing about 40% of the work taking him out of course your not gonna have hate issues. A good DD or BLM should be doing around at least 6-8k apiece (accounting for regen and how fast your DPSing) meaning your DD group should be doing at least 24k-28k minimum, roughly leaving the other 4.7k to be taken up by you and the non-DD focused players in your group.

Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

WOAH WOAH WOAH! I'm starting to see why your not having tanking issues right there! Ifrit has a little over 32.7k HP, if five BLM's are only averaging 15-20K total that means three non DD people are doing about 40% of the work taking him out of course your not gonna have hate issues. A good DD or BLM should be doing around at least 6-8k apiece (accounting for regen and how fast your DPSing) meaning your DD group should be doing at least 24k-28k minimum, roughly leaving the other 4.7k to be taken up by you and the non-DD focused players in your group.

being that as it may, weither or not my blm/thms are doing the awsome damage your dps is doing, we still manage 7 minute kills and i still keep hate well while parsing under 23k damage taken everytime.

wait a second... 37k hp, hmm soo even if we gave ifrit 50k hp, regen included 20k avg is ample to kill him in a speedy way. how is 3 non dps doing 40% of the work? ... OH lols i had to re read the post like 3 times, hard to take text into the right context. NO avg damage EACH is 20k thats one scorring low 20s 1-2 scorring high teens and one (usually a new blm/thm we are trying to get trained up) scoring realy low like 7-8k ish. I as PLD score crap for damage like 500 or soo, and the whms do debuffs and kinda sit around with their thumbs up their asses till Hell fire time or noobs get cought in cracks lol.

For what should have been done see my post on page 11. As a caveat they should increase enmity generation on pally in addition to what I suggested in my previous post. Or completely rework the way enmity is calculated.

With regards to the proposed changes on Warrior....

The DD buff MUST be significant enough on warrior to make up for Steel Cyclone. Without Steel cyclone, warrior damage was lol worthy at best when compared to every other DD out there. TP gain was/is very slow on a warrior and the timer on steel cyclone was necessary to keep up with other DD in significant fights. (I'm not talking about spamming it on trash mobs.)

There are two logical outcomes to the forthcoming warrior nerf/buff.

1. DD buff is insignificant. This coupled with the SC nerf leads to Warrior being ostracized if a PLD tank becomes strongly superior to a WAR Tank. Nobody will want it for DD if it cannot keep up with other jobs and will prefer a pally for tanking.

2. DD Buff is significant enough to make it a viable DD. As there is no nerf on HP or Def on a Warrior, it will still have access to most of its hate generating abilities and when carefully coupled with the buff on various DD skills will allow warrior to keep up a steady stream of different weapon skills which in turn means it will be a more efficient tank than a pally due to superior damage generation. Only real difference is that instead of constant steel cyclone spam you will have to rotate in other combos as appropriate.

I really think SE is treading the wrong path here with these fixes. I want PLD to be a great tank as I am close to capping it and enjoy tanking and really want to utilize it in end game set-ups. I also want it to have a strong dual identity as warrior currently does. (See last post)

Nerfing warrior was not the best solution but it was the easiest and as always that's what SE chose.

Originally Posted by Darkillumina

Nerfing warrior was not the best solution but it was the easiest and as always that's what SE chose.

Actually the "nerf" looks more like they're just decreasing possible damage output while tanking, in favor to increasing their DD output when not-tanking which falls more in line with what Yoshi said about WAR being too strong a DD and Tank at the same time needing the adjustment. WAR will still be out-damaging PLD by a sizable margin for the same reasons it is now, because Riot Blade> Rage of Halone combo is from the backside, so PLD still would suffer from the same complications WAR would have trying to do Whirlwind or Godsblade combos when tanking and not being able to utilize it's better WS damage potential.

Not to mention WAR is easily doing 3x PLD's damage most of the time (if not more) so that's plenty of breathing room between the two jobs.