Please reconsider an upcoming Black Mage change.

[HikariKurosawa]

Don't speak for us. Casting is something that defines a caster.

I agree, casting magic spells defines a caster. Regardless of whether it is instant cast or not. Everything else is basically tldr.

[GartredZW]

I agree, casting magic spells defines a caster. Regardless of whether it is instant cast or not. Everything else is basically tldr.

cool. good to know you're taking my advice.
don't talk about job design again. you're not good at it.

[Supersnow845]

Caster refers to using magic spells, not necessarily turret casting spells. It's why the term instant cast exists.

If combat is going to evolve to be more engaging and position dependent, then casters also have to evolve alongside it or else they will become redundant.

Even if semantics mattered as much as you are implying, at least use them correctly. I get that turret casting should exist, but it's not nearly as important or defining of the role as you are making it out to be.

Casters play caster because they like using magic spells. Black mage is the purest caster, not because of cast times, but because it uses the purest forms of magic and doesn't stray from them at all.

On top of this, the main "appeal" of black mage for "high end" players was the existence of non-standard play. Now that's more prevalent and dynamic than ever before with how you can go from anywhere between full instant cast to full standard. What is optimal will vary based on what is possible.

These changes are very good for the job. It's both more flexible than ever before while also being more straight-forward than ever before.

“It uses the purest form of magic”

What does that even mean, literally all 4 casters have a spell to throw a fireball if you are saying “BLM is to the closest to 1990 DND mage” otherwise that’s just a pointless statement

Casters in 14 (especially BLM and WHM) were designed to be turrety. Why does the game constantly force more and more movement to need instant casts. I hate marathon runs across the arena to fulfil mechanics as much as I hate the fact that it forces casters to not cast. Should we ask for melee to just not need to be in melee range next because if artificially restricted mechanic design

[HikariKurosawa]

if you are saying “BLM is to the closest to 1990 DND mage” otherwise that’s just a pointless statement

it means what it means. I think you should learn to identify jobs by their fantasy elements rather than their gameplay elements. You could have the same fantasy play out with any form of timing and pacing. It's completely irrelevant. Just like people who say dragoon is all about mashing oGCDs like crazy. Is that its identity or is that just how it has played?

Identity = fantasy, not gameplay.

[GartredZW]

Identity = fantasy, not gameplay.

Why, pray tell, did you come into a thread specifically, and exclusively discussing gameplay? What's your overall point here?
Are you saying that all we should care about is that the tooltip next to our buttons says "spell" instead of "weaponskill"? Do you think that's all that matters, and all that should matter to us?

I'd go into more detail on what job identity even means, but you've already shown that you can't handle more than three sentences, so I'll leave it off there.

[Supersnow845]

it means what it means. I think you should learn to identify jobs by their fantasy elements rather than their gameplay elements. You could have the same fantasy play out with any form of timing and pacing. It's completely irrelevant. Just like people who say dragoon is all about mashing oGCDs like crazy. Is that its identity or is that just how it has played?

Identity = fantasy, not gameplay.

So if we reduced BLM down to literally one button you pressed every 10 seconds that sent out a big fireball and was instant cast then it’s fine because the job is about the fantasy not the gameplay

What kind of logic is this

[HikariKurosawa]

So if we reduced BLM down to literally one button you pressed every 10 seconds that sent out a big fireball and was instant cast then it’s fine because the job is about the fantasy not the gameplay

What kind of logic is this

Nobody ever implied anything like that. What a wild take. Guys like you will be unhappy no matter what you do.

It's more like: If they reworked black mage to be instant cast only while preserving the themes of the spells in order to keep up with the type of content design the majority of players want in the game, it would be fine.

Standing there waiting for a spell to come out is not something that takes skill lol.

[Supersnow845]

Nobody ever implied anything like that. What a wild take. Guys like you will be unhappy no matter what you do.

You did, you literally said gameplay is meaningless to fantasy. So I offered you a boring as sin gameplay that still fit the fantasy you profess BLM embodies, by your own logic you wouldn’t mind that because gameplay doesn’t play into fantasy

If you want a less extreme example how about we remove melee range from melees. The fantasy comes from “weaponskill” on the screen and not “spell” right? So why should melee be artificially restricted to melee range

Edit; if you did that literally what would BLM’s skill ceiling be. Its entire skill design comes from spell timer upkeep

[HikariKurosawa]

You did, you literally said gameplay is meaningless to fantasy. So I offered you a boring as sin gameplay that still fit the fantasy you profess BLM embodies, by your own logic you wouldn’t mind that because gameplay doesn’t play into fantasy

If you want a less extreme example how about we remove melee range from melees. The fantasy comes from “weaponskill” on the screen and not “spell” right? So why should melee be artificially restricted to melee range

Edit; if you did that literally what would BLM’s skill ceiling be. Its entire skill design comes from spell timer upkeep

Gameplay is important, I agree. It's just not part of the job fantasy. You can't conflate two separate components of job design. Everything else you're saying is just not very bright.

[GartredZW]

Nobody ever implied anything like that. What a wild take. Guys like you will be unhappy no matter what you do.

It's more like: If they reworked black mage to be instant cast only while preserving the themes of the spells in order to keep up with the type of content design the majority of players want in the game, it would be fine.

Standing there waiting for a spell to come out is not something that takes skill lol.

How exactly is making all spells instant "preserving the themes of the spells"?
The entire theme is long cast times that you're immobile during.
Also, what you said about cast times not being something that takes skill, just adds another point to my "you don't actually play this class, and should stop trying to talk about job design" theory.
Try a single high end fight at all and I bet you'll be changing your tune on if cast times take skill to maneuver around. It's easier than ever, but it's still something you've got to devote a brain cell to.
Again I ask, Why are you even here when you seem to care so little about what actually makes the class fun to play? I'll emphasize that I'm asking about how it feels to play, not to look at.
I like Bard and Dragoon in terms of Aesthetic, but I hate their gameplay. I'm not about to start demanding they change it to fit more to my tastes. I'm going to go play Machinist and Samurai instead, even though I'm not too big a fan of their animations and gear sets.