Please reconsider an upcoming Black Mage change.

[Carighan]

Plus this means that if over a whole fight you had but two cases of having to move while having to cast, the instant rotation is in fact optimal.

[mallleable]

Thinking what if Manafont reset a charge of Triple cast and/or Leylines.

[GartredZW]

Thinking what if Manafont reset a charge of Triple cast and/or Leylines.

Just what we need. an extra three more instant casts every two minutes.
Surely that will fix everything.

[Carighan]

Thinking what if Manafont reset a charge of Triple cast and/or Leylines.

Hold on. If you can already play 100% instant and its optimal in many~most cases, why on Eorzea would you need more instant casts? Do you want to be a caster or just a Bard?

[Grumblecakes]

I like the changes from 7.1. With the style of fights you have to move. It is still fun to play and requires more skill than other casters. Black Mage popularity has increased since 7.1 anecdotally and I have seen far less PCT. So people are liking the changes imo. You all come off as old men shouting at the clouds tbh.

[Supersnow845]

I like the changes from 7.1. With the style of fights you have to move. It is still fun to play and requires more skill than other casters. Black Mage popularity has increased since 7.1 anecdotally and I have seen far less PCT. So people are liking the changes imo. You all come off as old men shouting at the clouds tbh.

I don’t like the 7.1 changes with the style of fights you have to move so it’s no longer fun

Anecdotally I’ve seen BLM less so it’s actually dead

You sound like a white knight

See how pointless a comparison like this is. People don’t like how a caster is casting less and less because fights are not being designed to allow casters to function properly. I’m not quite sure how that’s an “old man shouts at clouds” especially since your only evidence is anecdotes. BLM is still dead in the water for EX3 and FRU

[HikariKurosawa]

I don’t like the 7.1 changes with the style of fights you have to move so it’s no longer fun

Anecdotally I’ve seen BLM less so it’s actually dead

You sound like a white knight

See how pointless a comparison like this is. People don’t like how a caster is casting less and less because fights are not being designed to allow casters to function properly. I’m not quite sure how that’s an “old man shouts at clouds” especially since your only evidence is anecdotes. BLM is still dead in the water for EX3 and FRU

There is a big difference between being contrarian to "prove" a point, and actually engaging with the changes and seeing what people are doing.

Classic WoW exists for people like you.

[GartredZW]

There is a big difference between being contrarian to "prove" a point, and actually engaging with the changes and seeing what people are doing.

Classic WoW exists for people like you.

>giving Blizzard money
>in the year 2010+14

You might have actually had a point if there was a way to go back and relive old FFXIV expansions. I know I'd enjoy at least giving ARR or Heavensward a shot. I know I'd definitely love to stick around in Stormblood, Shadowbringers, and Endwalker.
For the record, I tried going back to a private server for multiple WoW expansions lately. Wanna know what my experience was? In an old expansion, it's spamming one or two buttons. In a newer expansion, it's at most eight with barely any job mechanics. Mostly just cooldown whack-a-mole with no more thought put into anything aligning at all. And funnily enough, even that game understands that casters play caster because we want to cast. my favorite class, The Fire Mage, even has a spell they can cast while moving for slightly lower damage.

I've engaged with these Black Mage changes in my first EX3 and Jeuno clears. It was so painfully easy that I barely needed to think or plan anything at all. This isn't just me being experienced in the job, We just genuinely have way too much movement to even need to consider positioning or resource planning. I still found myself spending Xenoglossy to not overcap, and sitting at two triplecast charges because I barely need them.
Also, take a look at the world first race for FRU. Point me to one contender that uses a Black Mage. Most of them are using Picto or Red Mage (and the latter usually gets swapped out for something with more damage when pushing for an actual clear)
I know there were Black Mages in the world first race for TOP. Even in the world first clear party (that didn't cheat, that is)

What Grumblecakes said was basically "I like it because it's fun and I notice people playing the class more now" which is so meaningless that it could only deserve such a dismissive reversal as Supersnow did. Not even to mention the insult thrown in, comparing us to "old men shouting at clouds" making such a response warranted.

[HikariKurosawa]

Hold on. If you can already play 100% instant and its optimal in many~most cases, why on Eorzea would you need more instant casts? Do you want to be a caster or just a Bard?

Caster refers to using magic spells, not necessarily turret casting spells. It's why the term instant cast exists.

If combat is going to evolve to be more engaging and position dependent, then casters also have to evolve alongside it or else they will become redundant.

Even if semantics mattered as much as you are implying, at least use them correctly. I get that turret casting should exist, but it's not nearly as important or defining of the role as you are making it out to be.

Casters play caster because they like using magic spells. Black mage is the purest caster, not because of cast times, but because it uses the purest forms of magic and doesn't stray from them at all.

On top of this, the main "appeal" of black mage for "high end" players was the existence of non-standard play. Now that's more prevalent and dynamic than ever before with how you can go from anywhere between full instant cast to full standard. What is optimal will vary based on what is possible.

These changes are very good for the job. It's both more flexible than ever before while also being more straight-forward than ever before.

[GartredZW]

If combat is going to evolve to be more engaging and position dependent, then casters also have to evolve alongside it or else they will become redundant.

Or they could just design fights to not directly contradict the entire point of eight of the non-limited jobs in the game?

Even if semantics mattered as much as you are implying, at least use them correctly. I get that turret casting should exist, but it's not nearly as important or defining of the role as you are making it out to be.
Casters play caster because they like using magic spells. Black mage is the purest caster, not because of cast times, but because it uses the purest forms of magic and doesn't stray from them at all.

Don't speak for us. Casting is something that defines a caster. Such that when it appears in non-caster jobs, it's seen as a notable exception like Iaijutsu, Harpe, or unbuffed Holy Spirit.
What functional difference is there between an instant cast, and a ranged weapon skill?
Do you think melee players would be fine with their weapons just suddenly being able to hit things from 20 meters away? do you think they'd be fine with that kind of design, or would they complain that it defeats the purpose of the role, to the point of the devs making bosses in the next expansion with more reasonable hitbox sizes? You can see where I'm going with this. This is what makes the role fun, and losing that is going to alienate people who play for that niche.

Something that you're not taking into account is that this topic wasn't about all casters. It's about Black Mage specifically. I'd be disappointed if Red Mage lost or nerfed Dual Cast, and Picto getting changed to use full casts instead of short casts would just make me a bit confused, not eager to try it again.
We can have different levels of mobility in casters without it breaking things. Not every job needs to be accessible and likable to every single person. (RIP old SMN. I hardly knew ye.)
If you told me in Endwalker that Black Mage has too many hardcast spells, and you'd like some more mobility, I'd recommend Summoner or Red Mage.
I would have thought Pictomancer would easily fit into the gulf of difficulty between Black Mage and Red Mage to make a nice gradient of difficulty between them all. Instead, they started to do that then brought black mage so far down that I'd argue Picto is even harder to play properly in certain instances.

On top of this, the main "appeal" of black mage for "high end" players was the existence of non-standard play. Now that's more prevalent and dynamic than ever before with how you can go from anywhere between full instant cast to full standard. What is optimal will vary based on what is possible.

These changes are very good for the job. It's both more flexible than ever before while also being more straight-forward than ever before.

Non-standard was something that some people enjoyed, but the majority of Black Mages, myself included, never even bothered with it because of how much practice it took, and how finnickey it could be at times if you don't use a ToS breaking addon.
Taking it away doesn't make the job more flexible at all, it just removes potential depth.
None of these changes make anything more straight forward. I don't even know what you mean by that. The intuitive standard rotation is still usable now. But instead the optimal standard rotation now requires saving Firestarter through your ice phase, and transposing back to Astral Fire 1 to then use Fire 3. That just feels weird to pull off when you learn about it.

I can tell you don't really play Black Mage all that much. so how about you just let those of us who main the class carry the discussion?