Job identity, simplification and balance in general

[HikariKurosawa]

I think you should put less stock into trying to falsely understand statements and look the reality in the eye my guy.

Yoshi-P says they make jobs too simple, and that DT is not going in that direction. Then, they make jobs even simpler. You can call it "streamlining" all you want, does not erase what it is. Either Yoshi-P is lying or he is not directing the game anymore.
Or you can keep huffing your copium, you do you.

None of the jobs were made simpler in dawntrail though, they all got added complexity.

Why would I be huffing copium too, what a weird way of twisting my perspective lol. I love the direction they have been taking the game. I think they should streamline it even further, and they have with 7.1.

[jonimated]

None of the jobs were made simpler in dawntrail though, they all got added complexity.

Every single job was either made simpler in Dawntrail, or kept their status quo. Not a single job got any added complexity whatsoever. Some that weren't simplified in 7.0 were given the simplification pass in 7.05 or 7.1. There's also examples like Reaper which were actually just made more clunky by adding a new high potency GCD which doesn't generate gauge. I'm not even sure how that passed testing.

I don't know how you've somehow convinced yourself that removing mechanics and button presses = "streamlining". There are 14 DPS jobs in FFXIV, and all but 2 could be played, through an entire 10 minute fight, with a single button macro. The only reason they are not is because the game literally doesn't allow for actual cast sequence macros. This also applies to all the tanks as well. You really don't see that as an issue? Outside of movement the player isn't actually a required part of the gameplay equation. And even movement in 99% of fights is completely scripted.

If you give me your character's current GCD and pick literally any fight I could tell you to 100% accuracy which button you should be pressing at minute 4 second 23. That's atrocious design for a medium built on agency and interaction.

[HikariKurosawa]

That's atrocious design for a medium built on agency and interaction.

Uh?????? Interact with the boss fight primarily. I don't understand this agency and "interaction" argument. That's what you want, not the devs or most of the players. FFXIV has always been about scripted optimized rotations. Always. You want it to play like WoW, so go play WoW. This game is about adhering to a rotation that makes sense and flows naturally. Always has been.

"ACSHUALLY SANDPAPER STREAMLINES THINGS TOO" rofl.

[jonimated]

That's what you want, not the devs or most of the players.

I'm sure you have statistic to back up what you believe most players want?

Why are you acting like anyone who wants a little bit of complexity added back into job design immediately means they want it to be like WoW? There's a chasm of difference between what the community frequently touts as peak FFXIV job design era, and Wow during any era. And the fact that your go-to is WoW when people talk about complexity in FFXIV really says a lot about your knowledge of the game from past expansions and even now.

You're acting like player feedback has never changed anything before, and player backlash has never reverted changes before. Does it happen all the time? Certainly not, but it's non-zero. Scholar has Aetherflow because of player backlash at it's removal. Ninja has a single Raiju stack following Raiton because of player feedback at the beginning of Shadowbringers.

It's completely possible to love a thing, and also push for it to change/improve. The two aren't mutually exclusive and you really need to understand that. Your pretentious "love it or leave it" attitude does nothing, helps no one, and serves no purpose outside of your own inflated sense of misplaced self-righteousness. People wanting a thing to be better =/= disliking the thing.

[Mikey_R]

You're acting like player feedback has never changed anything before, and player backlash has never reverted changes before. Does it happen all the time? Certainly not, but it's non-zero. Scholar has Aetherflow because of player backlash at it's removal.

Scholar never lost Aetherflow, they did lose Energy Drain though, which was quickly given back.

[jonimated]

Scholar never lost Aetherflow, they did lose Energy Drain though, which was quickly given back.

Right that's what it was. My bad.

[Keichi]

Scholar never lost Aetherflow, they did lose Energy Drain though, which was quickly given back.

Better example:
Star cross has reach now.
Ice Paradox came back.