Job identity, simplification and balance in general

[Alice9]

They have openly stated to have made adjustments while completely ignoring player feedback (e.g., Viper adjustments, which had a great many of people loudly asking Square not to do). Those changes still exist even as of 7.1. If they are willing to admit that, then imagine what they patronizingly think they know better than the playerbase regarding much older jobs?

While I'd like to think otherwise, there is a very big reason why whenever they announce job reworks, it fills those players with dread. They have a track record- and it's bad. However it seems that instead of analyzing why people tend to be more afraid of reworks rather than excited for them, they'll just start to not announce the rework beforehand until it is too late for the players to offer feedback. But I mean, it's not like they would listen to it anyway, right, given their history? I hope I'll be wrong.

[Keichi]

They stated, that they wanted to use 7.... to clean up the classes, what will them look alike a lot. And want than to use 8.... to give the jobs more uniqueness again.

Mean, you have to wait around 3 years (and even than is it questionable, if they are able to manage it and how that will be looking).

[Carighan]

I mean ,and they couldn't have either removed or reworked life surge.

Like I dunno, remove the +damage part (fold that into the main potency), then make it heal for 200%-300% of the damage dealt but only a single charge, so it's a big healing ability for when needed. In fact I'd take it as a trait replacement for Bloodbath for more unique identity!

[WiccaP]

*Laughs in Machinist*
But in all seriousness; they did state that in 7.x would be about bringing the jobs down and balancing them and 8.x would be about bringing the uniqueness and flavor back to the jobs. While its annoying, it does make sense to spend the next 3 years, planning and testing and working jobs and doing them all at once instead of trickling them down over patches. It is frustrating though, but MCH has been pretty much dumbed down since shadowbringers.

[Carighan]

They have openly stated to have made adjustments while completely ignoring player feedback (e.g., Viper adjustments, which had a great many of people loudly asking Square not to do). Those changes still exist even as of 7.1. If they are willing to admit that, then imagine what they patronizingly think they know better than the playerbase regarding much older jobs?

Now without disagreeing at all that the current job designs are tepid, annoying and pointless, this particular point (ignoring player feedback) is genuinely not a bad thing. You do *not* want players to be listened to in MMORPGs, history has shown that. But also importantly, you want them to be heard. That's a big difference, and right now the devs aren't doing either.

Players in MMOs are ~okay at telling you if something is problematic or unproblematic. They are ~so/so at telling you why it is (usually it comes down to "it's underpowered", "it's overpowered" or "it's bad", which are all unusable input), and they're terrifying bad at explaining what to do instead.

But the first part still has to be heard. Player feedback is important in its relative quantities to find the hotspots and to okay changes afterwards. Just not at figuring out whether and even if yes, what to do when looking at changing things.

I do so not envy game devs. I work in business software development and I hate our customers already. But they're not gamers. >.>

[Calysto]

They stated, that they wanted to use 7.... to clean up the classes, what will them look alike a lot. And want than to use 8.... to give the jobs more uniqueness again.

Mean, you have to wait around 3 years (and even than is it questionable, if they are able to manage it and how that will be looking).

They stated that they wanted to use 5 to clean up the healers. It's been almost 6 years and they are more homogenized than ever.

I wouldn't be surprised if they removed Holy's stun next with "since the case time is reduced you can weave a heal now"

[Supersnow845]

Remember when Lilys actually had a purpose

Ah good times

[Keichi]

They stated that they wanted to use 5 to clean up the healers. It's been almost 6 years and they are more homogenized than ever.

I wouldn't be surprised if they removed Holy's stun next with "since the case time is reduced you can weave a heal now"

At last for me are the healer separated enough.
White mage is a pure healer, who take care, after the dmg happens.
Scholar is barrier healer, who prefent dmg (is the healer, i like the most).
Sage is the most offensive one and the mixed child of the first 2. He allows you to adjust you, based on the co-healer (barrier focus, if no scholar is there, and pure healer, if a other barrier healer is there).
Astro is the only problem child, who is a buff support healer. But had bigger changes over time (didnt tested the current one, he was the one, where i had the biggest problem in DT).
They are similary, because the heal spells are the ones, everyone needs and make sense (Single heal, stronger heal spells with more cost, HoT, group healing, Esuna, and maybe barriers for tank buster/big aoe). That reduce the room for individuality.

But yeah, they stated to want to improve individuality to the next expansion. But personaly have i my doubts to. For me, are the classes differently enough.

[Supersnow845]

At last for me are the healer separated enough.
White mage is a pure healer, who take care, after the dmg happens.
Scholar is barrier healer, who prefent dmg (is the healer, i like the most).
Sage is the most offensive one and the mixed child of the first 2. He allows you to adjust you, based on the co-healer (barrier focus, if no scholar is there, and pure healer, if a other barrier healer is there).
Astro is the only problem child, who is a buff support healer. But had bigger changes over time (didnt tested the current one, he was the one, where i had the biggest problem in DT).
They are similary, because the heal spells are the ones, everyone needs and make sense (Single heal, stronger heal spells with more cost, HoT, group healing, Esuna, and maybe barriers for tank buster/big aoe). That reduce the room for individuality.

But yeah, they stated to want to improve individuality to the next expansion. But personaly have i my doubts to. For me, are the classes differently enough.

This just reads like what the healers are “supposed to be” even when it makes no sense or is pointless

Like can anyone point to a mechanic in the last like 5 years where people went “damn I sure am glad I had a WHM on my team”

The 4 healers are basically “WHM”, “WHM but better in every way”, “shield WHM” and “shield WHM but better in every way”

[ovIm]

They stated, that they wanted to use 7.... to clean up the classes, what will them look alike a lot. And want than to use 8.... to give the jobs more uniqueness again.

Mean, you have to wait around 3 years (and even than is it questionable, if they are able to manage it and how that will be looking).

Yoshi-P also said they were done with oversimplifying jobs, and yet here we are.
His words are absolutely worthless at this point. We'd all do well to fully prepare that the "new style of content" supposedly coming in 7.2 will just double down on everything we have come to loathe.