How do we develop Better Casual Content?

[ZoReee]

That is often the issue "just do fates, just do hunts" kind of sucks when there's no excitement in them. Its just an endless grind of no variance whatsoever. That's the issue with most casual content in general anyways, its just a hyper lack of variance.

The best I can describe fates and hunts are as if disciple of land could smack things. Its brainless easy repeatable content running from node to node.

All midcore really needs is some rotating content and something to encourage us to log in and do the activities. No pointless brainless grind, and also have it be exciting enough to not fall off the second a new x.0 patch hits. Like how star rail has its simulated universe, lord if deep dungeons were anything like that and encouraged a clear every week or just wasn't 100 floors and was 50 instead with variance, it would be so much more enjoyable.

ILVL hardly means anything to midcore, Gil means nothing in this game, levels cap out too easy, so what are rewards worth most the time unless you're hardcore and spend the money on supplies and you're grinding to get your next set piece from savage

[AllenThyl]

That is often the issue "just do fates, just do hunts" kind of sucks when there's no excitement in them. Its just an endless grind of no variance whatsoever. That's the issue with most casual content in general anyways, its just a hyper lack of variance.

The best I can describe fates and hunts are as if disciple of land could smack things. Its brainless easy repeatable content running from node to node.

I mean, that is what "casual content" is supposed to be, no? Brainless, requiring nothing to study or learn (or Thaliak forbid, actually look up how to the the basic rotation on a job), with no failstate, but mount reward at the end.

All midcore really needs is some roatating content and something to encourage us to log in and do the activities every day.

The Extremes and at least the first savage fight are midcore content.

[ZoReee]

I mean, that is what "casual content" is supposed to be, no? Brainless, requiring nothing to study or learn (or Thaliak forbid, actually look up how to the the basic rotation on a job), with no failstate, but mount reward at the end.



The Extremes and at least the first savage fight are midcore content.

They might be easy for you or easier than other extremes and savages, but when you clear P1S-P12S and clear all the endwalker extremes ofcourse the x.0 extremes and savages are gonna feel easy for you and serial clearers. If you do hardcore content, everything thats not hard to you is midcore content.

[AllenThyl]

They might be easy for you or easier than other extremes and savages, but when you clear P1S-P12S and clear all the endwalker extremes ofcourse the x.0 extremes and savages are gonna feel easy for you and serial clearers. If you do hardcore content, everything thats not hard to you is midcore content.

Because your definition of "midcore" content is indistinguishable from what is regarded as "casual" content. Hunts, Fates, dungeons, normal raids, they are all the "casual" content. They can be cleared doing lots of mistakes, they don't have any enrage to beat (i.e. no requirement for doing the job rotation even remotely correct), heck most people get carried through most of these activities anyway. Failstates require a significant part of the group to repeatedly fail over and over. Any content that wants to be labeled "midcore", needs to up the ante in some way. And yes, Bozja is no "midcore" content, it's utterly casual, except for Red Choctober. And you can regularly see Red Choctober utterly annihilating all the "midcore" players. because despite it only having 3 mechanics, the "midcore" players approach it with the "casual" mindset of "not bothering to learn anything".

So yes, Extremes, at the very least the first 2 of an expansion, and this tier's first savage fight, are midcore content. You actually have to do something there, and failstates that cannot be avoided when most of the group mess up. But they are still easier than some later savage fights which do much higher skill level.

[ZoReee]

Because your definition of "midcore" content is indistinguishable from what is regarded as "casual" content. Hunts, Fates, dungeons, normal raids, they are all the "casual" content. They can be cleared doing lots of mistakes, they don't have any enrage to beat (i.e. no requirement for doing the job rotation even remotely correct), heck most people get carried through most of these activities anyway. Failstates require a significant part of the group to repeatedly fail over and over. Any content that wants to be labeled "midcore", needs to up the ante in some way. And yes, Bozja is no "midcore" content, it's utterly casual, except for Red Choctober. And you can regularly see Red Choctober utterly annihilating all the "midcore" players. because despite it only having 3 mechanics, the "midcore" players approach it with the "casual" mindset of "not bothering to learn anything".

So yes, Extremes, at the very least the first 2 of an expansion, and this tier's first savage fight, are midcore content. You actually have to do something there, and failstates that cannot be avoided when most of the group mess up. But they are still easier than some later savage fights which do much higher skill level.

Its literally not, I said what was casual and I said what was midcore in this thread. But I can rehash what midcore is for you if you'd like

midcore is Expert Dungeons, Normal Raids, variant dungeons, Alliance raids on occasion(mostly the shadowbringer onwards ones), Deep dungeons, and Field farms like bozja. Things at those levels of difficulty you need to know your class proficiently enough to play the game without dogging your team.

Hardcore is extremes, savages, criterion, ultimates, unreals, chaos aliance because not only do they need you to know your class, you're fighting an Enrage Timer and need higher levels of communication to clear. Take enrage off extremes and i'd fully agree they would immediately become midcore content. (like holy shit dude they literally have a different duty tab too, like do you call ultimates hardcore+++ because they are harder than savages? you don't, even if extremes are the easiest hardcore content they are still literally under the umbrella)

I just said what casual was just above so i wont repeat that.

Does that clarify? in this case HC is getting an ultimate, unreal, extreme, and a chaos alliance this patch, Midcore is getting an expert dungeon and alliance raid, casuals are getting QOL, MSQ and some beast tribe quests. Tell me where the issue isn't?

*not to mention HC people get to do everything else in the patch too, as there is no you do this and you do that, they literally just get more to do

[AllenThyl]

midcore is Expert Dungeons, Normal Raids, variant dungeons, Alliance raids on occasion(mostly the shadowbringer onwards ones), Deep dungeons, and Field farms like bozja. Things at those levels of difficulty you need to know your class proficiently enough to play the game without dogging your team.

Aside from Deep Dungeons: No you don't, that's the whole point I was making. The majority of people get carried through the content you listed. The DPS discrepancy in an Alliance Raid duty finder party between top and bottom performers isn't 30%, it's 50-200%. Just to give you some ballpark numbers from last Expansion ARs, the top DPS were somewhere around 11k dps, while the majority clocked around 8k, with the lowest people dpsing about 5k. And there were still boss mechanics skipped. Speed kills of these bosses at content were often less than 2 minutes!

It's also funny how you think that the "Shadowbringer onwards ones" were the more difficult Alliance Raids, when the EW ones are widely and justifiably regarded as complete and utter joke with regards to difficulty.

The thing is, you have preconceived ideas about the difficulty of encounters you have never experienced like a window shopper. You see "Extreme" or "Minstrel's Ballad" and think "must be only for hardcore people". I mean, the very fact that you are already making an assessment of the Chaos Alliance raid difficulty when it's not even out and you most likely never step foot in it is pretty bold.

ake enrage off extremes and i'd fully agree they would immediately become midcore content. (like holy shit dude they literally have a different duty tab too)

Again, they ARE the midcore content. The enrage timer is to prevent people taking unlimited rezzes / tanks into them and just cheese the whole fight. Otherwise, they would just be casual content again! The enrage also serves to enforce a mediocum of job skill that can be expected of, you know, a "midcore" player. You make lots of distinctions to separate what is "midcore" and what is not, but the end result is that the activities and the skill level you describe of this group is indistinguishable from the group that typically gets the "casual" label stamped on them. People that cannot get past a few mechanics of the easier Extreme trials, have no business to call themselves "midcore". Doing something with no difficulty for longer period of times than another thing without difficulty, isn't an increase in skill. Both activities are still 0 difficulty.

[ZoReee]

Aside from Deep Dungeons: No you don't, that's the whole point I was making. The majority of people get carried through the content you listed. The DPS discrepancy in an Alliance Raid duty finder party between top and bottom performers isn't 30%, it's 50-200%. Just to give you some ballpark numbers from last Expansion ARs, the top DPS were somewhere around 11k dps, while the majority clocked around 8k, with the lowest people dpsing about 5k. And there were still boss mechanics skipped. Speed kills of these bosses at content were often less than 2 minutes!

It's also funny how you think that the "Shadowbringer onwards ones" were the more difficult Alliance Raids, when the EW ones are widely and justifiably regarded as complete and utter joke with regards to difficulty.

The thing is, you have preconceived ideas about the difficulty of encounters you have never experienced like a window shopper. You see "Extreme" or "Minstrel's Ballad" and think "must be only for hardcore people". I mean, the very fact that you are already making an assessment of the Chaos Alliance raid difficulty when it's not even out and you most likely never step foot in it is pretty bold.



Again, they ARE the midcore content. The enrage timer is to prevent people taking unlimited rezzes / tanks into them and just cheese the whole fight. Otherwise, they would just be casual content again! The enrage also serves to enforce a mediocum of job skill that can be expected of, you know, a "midcore" player. You make lots of distinctions to separate what is "midcore" and what is not, but the end result is that the activities and the skill level you describe of this group is indistinguishable from the group that typically gets the "casual" label stamped on them. People that cannot get past a few mechanics of the easier Extreme trials, have no business to call themselves "midcore". Doing something with no difficulty for longer period of times than another thing without difficulty, isn't an increase in skill. Both activities required are still 0 difficulty.

Valigarmastered Defeat Valigarmanda in Worqor Lar Dor (Extreme). 14%
Everkept Defeat Zoraal Ja in Everkeep (Extreme). 12%


Pick On Someone Your Own Size I Complete the quest “The Neoteric Witch” and AAC Light-heavyweight Tier. 21%

Oh wow its almost like the difference between normal raids and extremes is quite large


When theres an obvious line, I think it speaks for itself where hardcore starts??? You don't need to play the game of savage match 1 is actually midcore while everything else is hardcore, it literally says for us right in tracked achievements of the populace that hardcore starts at extreme. unless you want to define midcore as only extreme cause at that point there's even less content and you're further proving the point how stuffed this one part of the populace is. (though at that point you might as well deny the existence of midcore)