Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

[Supersnow845]

Yeah nowadays they usually fall only into two categories:

1. Did you withhold at least 1 of your CDs for this instead of using it to decrease incoming damage? Ideally 2, but 1 works.
2. Have you put Provoke on your hotbar for a quick tankswap or are you a Warrior and can just invuln each instance because your invuln CD is too low?

They've become too formulaic. Every so often we see something semi-clever, like a 15s+ DoT that kills you if you also got the debuff from the second hit, so even if you invuln you die a few seconds later. But with autoattack damage being ignorable already (since bosses rarely have time to AA) and tankbusters being just a "did you withhold CDs"-check, it's just... boring.

If nothing else, I want tankbusters to be unreliable! Any AA has a small chance to be "upgraded" to a simple big hit with a short cast bar, meanwhile there is a PPM-limitation for how frequently this can happen so that if nothing else, the OT can always grab the boss and use their timers (cast selects target at the end, as it just applies a short buff making the next AA be a big hit).

Alternatively they could just return crit autos and actually make autos dangerous

Anyone remember when a boss like kefka had a mit plan that went down to the GCD rather than down to per “event every 30 seconds”

[Carighan]

Oh true, or that. Which in turn would even open up more balancing knobs: Some tanks could be better at getting crit less or for less, but in return take more damage baseline.

[CKNovel]

It's a bit hard to draw a clear line between what tanks and healers should be capable of doing. At some point people will turn around and ask if healers should have access to single target mitigation tools because it encroaches on the tank experience of mitigating tankbusters.

In my opinion it's very simple:
-Tanks should shine when it comes to single target sustain.
-Healers should shine when it comes to party wide sustain.

The line should be considered crossed when 2 tanks can sustain 6 players.
PLD can be excused as using white magic is its identity and comes at a DPS loss.

A tank able to recover from the mistakes of a healer is good to the game rather than having all the healing responsibilities on healers, especially in casual, unorganized content where the lacking of a healer can lead to toxic situations.
I don't think anyone here is unfamiliar with situations similar to "where were de healzzzz???", a common thing in MMOs. Obviously, XIV is leaning too much in the healer friendly balance.

[Supersnow845]

In my opinion it's very simple:
-Tanks should shine when it comes to single target sustain.
-Healers should shine when it comes to party wide sustain.

The line should be considered crossed when 2 tanks can sustain 6 players.
PLD can be excused as using white magic is its identity and comes at a DPS loss.

A tank able to recover from the mistakes of a healer is good to the game rather than having all the healing responsibilities on healers, especially in casual, unorganized content where the lacking of a healer can lead to toxic situations.
I don't think anyone here is unfamiliar with situations similar to "where were de healzzzz???", a common thing in MMOs. Obviously, XIV is leaning too much in the healer friendly balance.

Does that not lead to the equally toxic situation of tank soloing

Right now in casual content there is no check on tank power. DPS lack adequate sustain to singularly keep themselves alive and healers keeping themselves alive tanks their DPS potential. Tanks meanwhile have no restrictions on either side which leads to how often tanks will solo a boss

If tanks are going to “shine” in single target sustain yo the point they can out sustain the damage being done to them they need to be checked in some other way because right now the only check in tanks power is the enrage on savage content that forces DPS (at least while its current)

[CKNovel]

DPS lack adequate sustain to singularly keep themselves alive

They can sustain themselves.
Dark Knight & 3 DPS run exists, here's one where the Dark Knight doesn't even cast Dark Missionary once and keep Oblation/TBN to themselves. Here's another one for the second Expert dungeon and finally Alexandria where the DRK press slightly more buttons.

And no, before you point out the Pictomancer, Star Prism didn't played a major role, I feel like this group was trying to see the limit of DPS self survival while using the least amount of defensives.

[Terhix]

They can sustain themselves.
Dark Knight & 3 DPS run exists, here's one where the Dark Knight doesn't even cast Dark Missionary once and keep Oblation/TBN to themselves. Here's another one for the second Expert dungeon and finally Alexandria where the DRK press slightly more buttons.

This DRK at the end of last pull before the first boss is down to 20% HP. This isn't sustain, this is mitigating and absorbing enough damage to survive before the trash dies. Doing a speed run of a dungeon in savage gear is not indicative of normal play, and ironically replacing one of the DPS with a healer in this run would vastly increase the odds of DRK needing some healing due to the DPS drop.

If you do a random roulette, and you get players that are not geared or just not very good at pumping out DPS, DRK will need healing period. Compare that to a WAR who can go into the same dungeon by themselves, w2w pull and clear the whole thing alone without any help.

[CKNovel]

This DRK at the end of last pull before the first boss is down to 20% HP. This isn't sustain, this is mitigating and absorbing enough damage to survive before the trash dies. Doing a speed run of a dungeon in savage gear is not indicative of normal play, and ironically replacing one of the DPS with a healer in this run would vastly increase the odds of DRK needing some healing due to the DPS drop.

If you do a random roulette, and you get players that are not geared or just not very good at pumping out DPS, DRK will need healing period. Compare that to a WAR who can go into the same dungeon by themselves, w2w pull and clear the whole thing alone without any help.

Very cool, however the point isn't the DRK but the DPS sustaining themselves.
I took DRK as it has the least healing capabilities on the teammates and this one in particular tried to avoid pressing their party wide mitigation.

[Supersnow845]

Very cool, however the point isn't the DRK but the DPS sustaining themselves.
I took DRK as it has the least healing capabilities on the teammates and this one in particular tried to avoid pressing their party wide mitigation.

I meant the DPS sustaining themselves if they are the target of the bosses agro (ie there is no tank). That’s why i also said the healers have to tank their damage to stay alive. Healers don’t need to lose damage to keep themselves alive during the 1 raidwide per 30 minutes the bosses put out

My point was in a situation where tanks shine in self sustain there can be no check on their power in content that doesn’t have an enrage because if the tank can outheal the damage they take the healers role becomes babying the DPS who also aren’t needed if there is no DPS check

[CKNovel]

I meant the DPS sustaining themselves if they are the target of the bosses agro (ie there is no tank). That’s why i also said the healers have to tank their damage to stay alive. Healers don’t need to lose damage to keep themselves alive during the 1 raidwide per 30 minutes the bosses put out

My point was in a situation where tanks shine in self sustain there can be no check on their power in content that doesn’t have an enrage because if the tank can outheal the damage they take the healers role becomes babying the DPS who also aren’t needed if there is no DPS check

Fair.
Yes, they should take much more damage on tank buster and tank buster should happen during trash pack. Since Shadowbringer we don't have to think about how we mitigate,
The fact that DRK can do this 1 tank 3 DPS run when keeping mitigation should be telling enough. DRK's kit shouldn't be able to allow it to last it a whole dungeon by itself, wether they finish at 50, 20, 1%.

If you look at the run, the group took 5 to 7 vulnerability up per dungeon yet they never got KO'd.
I believe they were trying to find the limit of their survivability while using the least defensives.

[Kabooa]

I believe they were trying to find the limit of their survivability while using the least defensives.

There's a Samurai.

They took vuln stacks to pop Tengetsu when aoe raid wides weren't coming out because it gave them 10 Kenki.