Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

[Supersnow845]

I'll elaborate here. That's basically saying hypercasuals who always expect a hard carry when solo queuing for content outnumber all other player types 10 to 1 and will be jipped of the way they play if Square Enix gave this thread any attention and actually nerfed warrior self sustain. Do you really want the game to lose 50% of its monetization in a single day just because you think a job is too OP? Sorry but most people don't want challenge to mean so nigh impossible that only the most elite of players can clear, and many find being overpowered to be what makes things fun for them.

TIL that having the jobs exist in their ShB form is “so nigh impossible that only the most elite of players can clear”

[Terhix]

I'll elaborate here. That's basically saying hypercasuals who always expect a hard carry when solo queuing for content outnumber all other player types 10 to 1 and will be jipped of the way they play if Square Enix gave this thread any attention and actually nerfed warrior self sustain. Do you really want the game to lose 50% of it's monetization in a single day just because you think a job is too OP? Sorry but most people don't want challenge to mean so nigh impossible that only the most elite of players can clear, and many find being overpowered to be what makes things fun for them.

If only this has ever happened in another game and we could see what happens. Oh wait, it did in Dragonflight which ended up being a really well received expansion. Then they did it again for TWW, which seems to be shaping even better. It's almost like sometimes nerfing classes improves the overall game.

[CKNovel]

I believe it should be important to note a few things about WoW:
-Relative to healers, WoW tanks heals way more, even after the nerf Blood Death Knight can't die even in high-end content. BDK's HPS in mythic dungeon can be superior to healers.
-Healers have other responsibilities to manage such as cleansing debuffs and removing ennemy buffs, or interrupt dangerous casts.
-DPS also have access to very strong healing, much more than FF.

Yet their healers don't strike about that.
WoW and XIV can be compared but we shouldn't forget despite sharing similarities, they're apples and oranges.

[BabyYoda]

I believe it should be important to note a few things about WoW:
-Relative to healers, WoW tanks heals way more, even after the nerf Blood Death Knight can't die even in high-end content. BDK's HPS in mythic dungeon can be superior to healers.
-Healers have other responsibilities to manage such as cleansing debuffs and removing ennemy buffs, or interrupt dangerous casts.
-DPS also have access to very strong healing, much more than FF.

Yet their healers don't strike about that.
WoW and XIV can be compared but we shouldn't forget despite sharing similarities, they're apples and oranges.

WoW is successful game but it isn't the measurement of good implementation on trinity system..

Tanks shouldn't heal like healers rathor than having more heals than healers.
DPS shouldn't have healing capabilities as healers it should be limited with high CDs.
Buffs and Debuffs and CC is part of tank identity IMO armor crush, break.. these skills sounds like tank thing not a healer.


People who plays WoW hates their trinity system why should we implement it?

IMO current FFXIV trinity with its flaws is way better than WoW

[Supersnow845]

It’s more towards tanks heal more in WOW but the boss belts them with far far more damage

If the WOW tanks heal twice as much but the boss does 4 times as much damage that’s the same as our tanks getting their healing nerfed by 50%

[Carighan]

It’s more towards tanks heal more in WOW but the boss belts them with far far more damage

In general, fights in WoW dish out significantly more damage. To a degree that to players who did not compare it themselves from a healer or tank perspective might be difficult to fathom.

To put it in FFXIV terms, imagine if you had to ~constantly use your GCD-based healing kit on top of all the oGCDs, simply because the boss dealt 25%-30% of a tank's health per auto-attack and did so quickly, plus hit 1-2 people in the group for 30%-50% of their HP about every second GCD or so. That's not a perfect translation, but it should give you an idea of how WoW healing and damage tanking feels.

It's no wonder that WoW by comparison does not have the problem of tanks and healers both being just different coloured types of DPS where their non-DPS functions have become shoved into oGCD weaves and trivialized via passives and automatic effects. It has some other problems as a result of this difference, but a lack of use for your tanking or healing kit really isn't one. Aye.

[CKNovel]

Being able to do a mythic 11 key with no healer after tank sustain got nerfed twice is not the “don’t nerf tank sustain in 14 argument” you think it is

It’s more towards tanks heal more in WOW but the boss belts them with far far more damage

If the WOW tanks heal twice as much but the boss does 4 times as much damage that’s the same as our tanks getting their healing nerfed by 50%

It's to contradict that misinformation you tried to spread.
People here try to use the WoW tank sustain nerf as if it used to be on the same level to XIV while avoiding how broken it truly was.

[AnjouMaaka]

FFXIV's Warrior wouldn't last a single trash pull in a WoW dungeon. The type of self healing it does only works in FFXIV thanks to the content design. As I've stated before, the way to go about it is to overcome the job design with content design, something Square Enix achieves very well with savage and ultimate, but not so well in dungeons.

Most players sub for the new story stuff, and then unsub until the next major patch. These players don't frequent the forums and they outnumber raiders 10 to 1. The minimum ilvl for dungeons is like way less than the previous expansion's best in slot, because these players only take whatever dungeon gear they get and don't even know better gear exists. If Square Enix overcame the job design in dungeons, these players would be unable to contribute to the party, much less figure out why they can't make progress, which would frustrate them and make them just give up. The way to break away from this state that dungeons are in is to stop tying the dungeons to the story. That would free up the devs to make the dungeons more challenging, and also more rewarding.

When you see a warrior go full immortal in dungeons, it's because they are using their cooldowns correctly AND extremely overgeared. If you were to play the job at minimum ilvl in the dungeon, which I've seen plenty of warriors who do, it's a much different story, and even a well seasoned veteran playing warrior in that state has to pretty much blow everything just to pull wall to wall. The dungeon balance is centered around doing the dungeon at the minimum ilvl. Which is something many players take for granted, as was made obvious via Dawntrail's dungeon design (those birds in the 97 dungeon hit like a truck, even when overgeared).

[Supersnow845]

It's to contradict that misinformation you tried to spread.
People here try to use the WoW tank sustain nerf as if it used to be on the same level to XIV while avoiding how broken it truly was.

Those two claims don’t contradict, WOW hits for more which justifies a higher sustain level. Is WOW’s sustain still too high……arguable. Is WOW’s sustain better balanced because the tanks take more damage……yes

And the only reason the sustain nerf was bought up was because Anjou doomed about a sustain nerf leading the population of 14 to collapse. Which WOW’s sustain nerf directly refutes

[CKNovel]

Those two claims don’t contradict, WOW hits for more which justifies a higher sustain level. Is WOW’s sustain still too high……arguable. Is WOW’s sustain better balanced because the tanks take more damage……yes.

That's an insane level of denial and double standard.
One moment you scream that Healers are being replaced and your role is being filled by the tanks because of gimmick clears and casual content.
But WoW is fine when I show you a tank solo tanking a whole high-endgame content with no healers on a specs like Guardian Druid can also ressurect and cleanse poisons.

Yes, wow tanks takes more damage, but they can also sustain more than the damage their receive.
Unlike XIV, it isn't rare to see WoW tanks healing and mitigating more than their healers.