Concerns Regarding DPS Balance: Physical Ranged, Red Mage, and Summoner

[Lorika]

Shiva was not “created” by Ysayle. Shiva was an actual personage who was intimately involved with a certain dragon, who became an almost mythic figure. She could be summoned just as easily by anyone with the power to do so. (And she was! By someone else, just based on our memories of her!)

No, the primal Shiva was created by Ysayle. Even the dragon say it : To never say his beloved name again and call this perveted false divinity Shiva.

[Carighan]

Did you read your job quest and the lore of the job?
Because this imply you didn't.

~snip~

Not the person you replied to, but I'll add: It frankly doesn't matter. Much of the job design makes no sense in the context of the world lore. Nevermind does our overall power level vs what we do make any sense. At all.

There's no issue adding new summons to a SUMMONER job. We just use tiny bits of their power and it'd be trivial to add story elements for why we get one, buuuuuut, it's not like modern lore requires us to:

* The recent expansions no longer give abilities from quests. You just get them. No story, no lore, no nothing, poof, new power. Dragoon now makes dragon erupt from the earth. Scholar now goes angel-form.
* We randomly activate job stones in more modern jobs, without any work being done to inheriting it. I would argue any form of lore-justification for job elements if entirely out of the design space by now.

Also, it'd just be cool to get more summons that aren't just Bahamut having paid €20 for a legendary skin in his cash shop.

[Lyth]

They should let you summon the Shiva of Darkness as a reward for clearing FRU.

[Sylvain]

Shiva was not “created” by Ysayle. Shiva was an actual personage who was intimately involved with a certain dragon, who became an almost mythic figure. She could be summoned just as easily by anyone with the power to do so. (And she was! By someone else, just based on our memories of her!)

When we summon, we’re creating arcane constructs or thought-forms; we’re not summoning the actual person or deity the summons are based on. The “feelings” of the mythos they’re based on, if they can be said to have them, aren’t relevant. If so, you could make the same argument for the ones we already have. Would Ifrit “like” being summoned by a non-Amalj’aa? Our existing gem summons are tied to allied societies that we very fiercely fought against originally, and we got the power of those summons well before peace was made with their people.

By your reasoning, we should only be able to summon Phoenix, but only if we completed the Coils raids, and Bahamut, but only after completing all 7 EW Extremes.

The biggest reason given in-game for why we don’t have the other 3 primals was that we had supposedly reached our “aetheric limit” with the ones we already had. But we are stronger now (again, see ShB) and we got Solar with no explanation whatsoever, but it’s pretty obvious by the time you get it what it’s supposed to represent.

Yeah that's personally how I enterpreted it...
We wouldn't really summon Shiva. Just the image of what we consider she was. To us shiva is Ysayle transformed.

I forgot the part about the aetheric limit.

They should let you summon the Shiva of Darkness as a reward for clearing FRU.

I can forsee the post of 500000 pages of raging summoner

[Carighan]

They should let you summon the Shiva of Darkness as a reward for clearing FRU.

Ooooh, Ryne and Gaia as summons, and if summoned back to back you get a cut scene, everyone gets distracted, and we wipe?

[ElysiumDragon]

Numbers largely don't matter unless the tier's chronically overtuned, see Abyssos as an example of this.

"But I shouldn't be doing-"

My job fantasy of being a Phys Ranged isn't Big Numbers, it's flexing on the Black Mage players by being able to move at will, and flexing on the Melee players by having 100% uptime, without demanding specific positioning or strats that favour me. It's deliberately choosing the flex role during almost every mechanic, and doing so while also putting out a decent amount of damage AND contributing to the party's survivability.

My job isn't to enable some bleeding-edge speed kills, but to make the lives of my party members easier by virtue of existing. Maybe my role's redundant if you're all turbogamers, sure? But 999 times out of a thousand, you're not surviving that mechanic without Samba, and you're not clearing that mechanic without a flex that isn't terminally addicted to the "Gotta get one more GCD in" mentality.

[Khryseis_Astra]

I forgot the part about the aetheric limit.

It was from the level 58 SMN job quest, where we first learn Dreadwyrm Trance.
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/L...nced_All_Night

[Rika007]

So how to solve movement tax for summoner?

By removing the movement tax entirely from the game, as it serves no purpose whatsoever but to piss off players of jobs that weren't arbitrarily decided to be subject to it.

[Mortex]

I agree that it's dumb but it absolutely happens. MCH was locked out of PF in Endwalker for months until it got potency buffs.

These people don’t remember p8s week 1 and afterwards, were specific jobs aka war,pld and mch were not taken in pf because a measly 1000 dps missing from these 3 jobs being in the party could make or break the run. It gave rise too a specific war main streamer playing gnb and making the dps check with a dmg down while he was war it wasn’t possible even with a clear run.

[Carighan]

My job isn't to enable some bleeding-edge speed kills, but to make the lives of my party members easier by virtue of existing. Maybe my role's redundant if you're all turbogamers, sure? But 999 times out of a thousand, you're not surviving that mechanic without Samba, and you're not clearing that mechanic without a flex that isn't terminally addicted to the "Gotta get one more GCD in" mentality.

That's a good point.

I play Dancer as my ranged of choice not because I want to be doing a lot of damage. In fact, that's entirely unimportant. I could be doing close to 0 damage. I want my chosen dance partner to absolutely go wild. That's the job-fantasy here, instead of doing a lot of damage myself, pick a partner and propel them to stardom.