Concerns Regarding DPS Balance: Physical Ranged, Red Mage, and Summoner

[Sylvain]

By removing the movement tax entirely from the game, as it serves no purpose whatsoever but to piss off players of jobs that weren't arbitrarily decided to be subject to it.

The most logical thing is to just have a not so wide range on "movement capability".
Basically, every caster should be roughly doing the same amount of cast and have the same mobility.
In the same way melee, most (except dragoon still for some reason) have some tool to get out of melee for some period of time, and range don't have any cast bar and thus are free.

The issue with the "movement tax" on RDM/SMN is that they simply don't cast enough, and this is mostly true for SMN.
Samurai currently cast 4.5 times per minute which makes it more of a caster than SMN. This is simply how ridiculous the situation is.

RDM overall is fine. I feel like it needs some moment of "more cast" a bit like the alternative palette. (but now that would just be copying that aspect) but like... you're still casting often enough.
SMN however... like something needs to be done. A melee shouldn't have more cast than a caster.

[Lorika]

Remove raise from SMN and RDM. Buff SMN/RDM dps to PCT/BLM level.

Here the thing : you can't remove raise from RDM because :
- RDM always had raise and heal since the job system was introduced into FF Serie
- FFXIV Lore wise : RDM must have heal and raise

[Sunako]

Here the thing : you can't remove raise from RDM because :
- RDM always had raise and heal since the job system was introduced into FF Serie
- FFXIV Lore wise : RDM must have heal and raise

What if RDM can keep raise, but you can only use it outside combat like paladin during 2.0?

[Valence]

But is SMN taxed for movement? Because it seems to me that doing similar amounts of contributed damage than RDM, which is arguably a lot more constrained for uptime, means that the tax is applied for raising and party healing specifically, not their uptime potential.

Rphys is taxed for movement (else I don't see what else), but not SMN, else SMN would output an even lower damage as a consequence of a double tax.

[Khryseis_Astra]

Summon become available only after all 6 have been used. So every 2 mins a SMN would need to summon all 6.
With 6 levels of mobility, the player has agency on which usmmon to use where and can thus save all the movement one (Garuda/Titan) for specific moment and dump the turret summon else where.

This would be the most welcomed one and have the greatest impact as the intended design "choose where you put the difficult summon (ifrit)" would feel more alive.

From a UI pov it could simply be done by adding 3 new buttons or a single one which swaps the summon. For instance.
You have [Ifrit, Titan, Garuda]. when you press "Alternate summon, 10s ogcd".
They turn to [Shiva, Leviathan, Ramuh]. Which would be only a single button.

I do like a lot of this… while I’m of the opinion that instant or fast casts are still in fact casts, and don’t really see the need to burden us with longer cast times when we’re already “taxed” for our rez, I’d put up with just about anything to get my other 3 elemental summons!

At any rate, putting the summons on the gems made it easy from a UI perspective like you said. All that needs to be done is have them switch to the other set of gems when they’re ready to be used. I like the idea of switching between two “teams” that are more or less equivalent potency-wise, but that the main reason to choose one or the other at any given time would be the particular mechanics involved. You can do this to a minor extent now, by saving Ifrit to line up with a good time for your jump-in action, but giving us the other 3 summons with unique abilities could help it feel like you have more flexibility and variety to the rotation. One idea I’ve seen that I like is splitting the 6 summons into astral/umbral teams and having something like BLM’s Transpose (your “alternate summon” button). Maybe call it Astral Shift and it will change to Umbral Shift when used, so you can switch again when the cooldown is over.

I think that would add a lot to the job without making the basic rotation too complicated for those who want a “fast & easy” caster, while still adding a higher level of mastery ceiling for those that want more complexity.

[Sylvain]

I do like a lot of this… while I’m of the opinion that instant or fast casts are still in fact casts, and don’t really see the need to burden us with longer cast times when we’re already “taxed” for our rez, I’d put up with just about anything to get my other 3 elemental summons!

At any rate, putting the summons on the gems made it easy from a UI perspective like you said. All that needs to be done is have them switch to the other set of gems when they’re ready to be used. I like the idea of switching between two “teams” that are more or less equivalent potency-wise, but that the main reason to choose one or the other at any given time would be the particular mechanics involved. You can do this to a minor extent now, by saving Ifrit to line up with a good time for your jump-in action, but giving us the other 3 summons with unique abilities could help it feel like you have more flexibility and variety to the rotation. One idea I’ve seen that I like is splitting the 6 summons into astral/umbral teams and having something like BLM’s Transpose (your “alternate summon” button). Maybe call it Astral Shift and it will change to Umbral Shift when used, so you can switch again when the cooldown is over.

I think that would add a lot to the job without making the basic rotation too complicated for those who want a “fast & easy” caster, while still adding a higher level of mastery ceiling for those that want more complexity.

I mean at the end of the day they're all still rather simple we only have 2 skills and they need to be used within a window of 10s so there's so much that can be done.
Following what I added.
Leviathan is just 4 times the same cast just slower, and slower, and slower. So nothing hard to understand.
Shiva I pictured a 4 action (2s recast) where you the second and fourth step are either rear/flank like the old dragoon claw and fang. The second action would be your "staff attack" which does extra damage for each positional well executed.
Ramuh would just be a quick game of pressing button A if you have 0 charges, button B if you have any. It's not complicated, it's just fast. (And the fast paced would be allowed BECAUSE you can't move while doing it. Like, you can't./shouldn't be doing any mechanic while under ramuh. i really feel taht would make some fun experience)

I don't believe those to be any harder to understand than most other abilities.
But that would definitely add a lot. (however if we ever get something else I fear it will just be glamour ^^')

[Khryseis_Astra]

Did you read your job quest and the lore of the job?
Because this imply you didn't.

There’s been plenty of in-game lore bits that could be used to justify why we would be able to use Levi, Shiva and Ramuh now, when we couldn’t before.

Not to give spoilers for those who haven’t done them yet, but look a little more closely at the dialog and WoL “upgrades” in ShB MSQ, the Eden raids, and a more in-depth discussion in EW of how summoning relates to ancient creation magic.

All egis really are, are arcane constructs created using the lingering aetheric essence of a defeated primal. If we’ve defeated them, we’ve been exposed to that essence. There was also a reason why we weren’t “strong enough” to summon more egis, but again, with the events of ShB MSQ, that could easily be explained away.

[Lorika]

There’s been plenty of in-game lore bits that could be used to justify why we would be able to use Levi, Shiva and Ramuh now, when we couldn’t before.

Not to give spoilers for those who haven’t done them yet, but look a little more closely at the dialog and WoL “upgrades” in ShB MSQ, the Eden raids, and a more in-depth discussion in EW of how summoning relates to ancient creation magic.

All egis really are, are arcane constructs created using the lingering aetheric essence of a defeated primal. If we’ve defeated them, we’ve been exposed to that essence. There was also a reason why we weren’t “strong enough” to summon more egis, but again, with the events of ShB MSQ, that could easily be explained away.

Doesn't change things in fact.

Shiva still impossible because (i will say it again), this primal was created by Ysayle and was tied to her soul. Only her was able to summon it with enough Crystal. Shiva disapeared alongside Ysayle (herectics stated they were unable to summon Shiva after her death).
Meaning : you must summon Ysayle soul to have access to Shiva..... if SE ever allow Shiva to player, i unsub directly. Leave Ysayle alone! She doesn't deserve to be the slave of a summoner!

For the grumpy bilibili gramps. It's a protector, it only attack if his childs (Sylph) are in danger.
it doesn't trust human at all, and even consider them to be the source of all the problems. It barely aknowledge the WoL....
And even if you're able to summon it.... You will have an hovering stationary mini bearded gramps that will only throw lightning when you're attacked and the mob enter a certain radius... Sooo great!

As for Levi-chan.... It's just a dumb and agressive big fat eel that can only use it power in water.... very usefull indeed!

[Khryseis_Astra]

Shiva was not “created” by Ysayle. Shiva was an actual personage who was intimately involved with a certain dragon, who became an almost mythic figure. She could be summoned just as easily by anyone with the power to do so. (And she was! By someone else, just based on our memories of her!)

When we summon, we’re creating arcane constructs or thought-forms; we’re not summoning the actual person or deity the summons are based on. The “feelings” of the mythos they’re based on, if they can be said to have them, aren’t relevant. If so, you could make the same argument for the ones we already have. Would Ifrit “like” being summoned by a non-Amalj’aa? Our existing gem summons are tied to allied societies that we very fiercely fought against originally, and we got the power of those summons well before peace was made with their people.

By your reasoning, we should only be able to summon Phoenix, but only if we completed the Coils raids, and Bahamut, but only after completing all 7 EW Extremes.

The biggest reason given in-game for why we don’t have the other 3 primals was that we had supposedly reached our “aetheric limit” with the ones we already had. But we are stronger now (again, see ShB) and we got Solar with no explanation whatsoever, but it’s pretty obvious by the time you get it what it’s supposed to represent.

[Lorika]

Shiva was not “created” by Ysayle. Shiva was an actual personage who was intimately involved with a certain dragon, who became an almost mythic figure. She could be summoned just as easily by anyone with the power to do so. (And she was! By someone else, just based on our memories of her!)

No, the primal Shiva was created by Ysayle. Even the dragon say it : To never say his beloved name again and call this perveted false divinity Shiva.