Concerns Regarding DPS Balance: Physical Ranged, Red Mage, and Summoner

[Khryseis_Astra]

I forgot the part about the aetheric limit.

It was from the level 58 SMN job quest, where we first learn Dreadwyrm Trance.
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/L...nced_All_Night

[Mortex]

I agree that it's dumb but it absolutely happens. MCH was locked out of PF in Endwalker for months until it got potency buffs.

These people don’t remember p8s week 1 and afterwards, were specific jobs aka war,pld and mch were not taken in pf because a measly 1000 dps missing from these 3 jobs being in the party could make or break the run. It gave rise too a specific war main streamer playing gnb and making the dps check with a dmg down while he was war it wasn’t possible even with a clear run.

[Carighan]

Yeah casters really ought to be standing still with a cast bar most of the time (on the most mobile caster). And all of the time on the least mobile one. Period. And equivalent setups for melee but those have to be done a lot more through the design of the encounters.

[CKNovel]

Curing Waltz is 300 potency that can be doubled without suffering any limitations, it's worth even if you restore your own HP as phys ranged are frail.
Improvised Finish is 5% shield but shields are simply that strong due to the negative return on the mitigations calculations.

After you pass the 50% mark of mitigation, Improved finish is straight-up better, but it's quite difficult to reach that 50%.

[PercibelTheren]

Curing Waltz is 300 potency that can be doubled without suffering any limitations, it's worth even if you restore your own HP as phys ranged are frail.
Improvised Finish is 5% shield but shields are simply that strong due to the negative return on the mitigations calculations.

After you pass the 50% mark of mitigation, Improved finish is straight-up better, but it's quite difficult to reach that 50%.

Curing Waltz is indeed nice in a pinch but that's about it. I can never get the party to stack up for it and if I'm having to use it, it usually means the healers are dead and we'll die anyway.

Improvisation is straight up basically never usable unless you want the tiny regen. When do you have time to channel it in the vast majority of fights?

[CKNovel]

Curing Waltz is indeed nice in a pinch but that's about it. I can never get the party to stack up for it and if I'm having to use it, it usually means the healers are dead and we'll die anyway.

Improvisation is straight up basically never usable unless you want the tiny regen. When do you have time to channel it in the vast majority of fights?

You can double tap Improvisation to get the 5% shield, it ramps up to 10% if you keep dancing.
It's very rare to have the possibility to fully channel it but you still have the 5% instant shield anyway.

One thing I also completely forgot to point out is that shields don't take in account wether the attack is magical or physical. I believe "darkness" or "true" damage can be soaked as well but don't quote me on that.

[Valence]

- Ranged have buffs and utility is a red herring when one just has to go open a cDPS chart that combines every party contribution and raid buff use into a single metric to have a general overview of the problem, and rphys are 10% behind everybody else, which INCLUDES buffs. And if the argument is that there is also utility, well yeah, what the above poster said.

- "Ranged have freedom of movement" is reductive and often used as a derogatory blanket statement onto rphys jobs. The correct statement is "Ranged Physical has freedom of uptime", which doesn't include the movement part, since MCH and BRD are part of the 4 worst jobs when it comes to pure mobility with SCH and AST. Everybody else moves better, which allows for better wiggle room in execution (to make up for uptime constraints). Once a non rphys job has mapped out their uptime, they're technically more mobile than any rphys (but DNC).

[NightHour]

- Ranged have buffs and utility is a red herring when one just has to go open a cDPS chart that combines every party contribution and raid buff use into a single metric to have a general overview of the problem, and rphys are 10% behind everybody else, which INCLUDES buffs. And if the argument is that there is also utility, well yeah, what the above poster said.

- "Ranged have freedom of movement" is reductive and often used as a derogatory blanket statement onto rphys jobs. The correct statement is "Ranged Physical has freedom of uptime", which doesn't include the movement part, since MCH and BRD are part of the 4 worst jobs when it comes to pure mobility with SCH and AST. Everybody else moves better, which allows for better wiggle room in execution (to make up for uptime constraints). Once a non rphys job has mapped out their uptime, they're technically more mobile than any rphys (but DNC).

I'd say if Phys Ranged came up by another 5% ish, we'd be in a good spot.

You can double tap Improvisation to get the 5% shield, it ramps up to 10% if you keep dancing.
It's very rare to have the possibility to fully channel it but you still have the 5% instant shield anyway.

One thing I also completely forgot to point out is that shields don't take in account wether the attack is magical or physical. I believe "darkness" or "true" damage can be soaked as well but don't quote me on that.

Improvisation is an ability I'd happily say goodbye to if i could have more personal dps.

[Valence]

Rphys has always been buffed and the gap reduced to 5% overall both in ShB and EW with the successive patches that came after first tier of savage so I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen again, because for some reason this keeps happening... Doesn't solve the problem that rphys' only justification remains a 1% party glorified token, but at least it makes people less grumpy about it.

[mallleable]

I've been starting to rethink the 'ranged tax' or uptime tax' as a positioning tax, and I say this as a phys ranged player, but a positioning tax does kinda have a point. Phys ranged have no positioning concerns unlike every other job in the game. They don't need to worry about being at the correct range or on the right spots on an enemy's hit box like a melee. They don't need to worry about standing still or minimizing movement like a magical ranged. They don't have caster concerns or be in range of other players to dish out heals like a healer. And they don't need to worry about being in melee range, and how their positioning will affect the enemy's position like a tank. The only time phys ranged have to think aout their positioning is when mechanics are happening, but that's concern for everyone. Why is there a role that don't need to position in a game where positioning matters?

It's like if there were a multiplayer shooter game that had a handful of damage characters or weapons that can hit their target anywhere on the map while being anywhere on the map, and they don't need to aim -- they would be unbalanceable. I think it would be healthier for the phys ranged role if it had some positioning responsibilities either through things like walking casts or positionals or both. Now, I think it would be cool to have like a mobility specialist job that doesn't have positioning concerns, but not an entire role dedicated to the same specialty.