Give healers dps

[Jeeqbit]

Would it hurt anyone? Would it break th3 game?

Knowing that healers only contribute a tiny percentage of overall damage makes it easier to just decide to heal tbh. Which is good because sometimes deciding to DPS has a small but real risk of someone dying.

Square doesn't seem to realize or care how big the cracks are in this game from a dogshit ass story

Well okay? If it's so simple to do it better then where is your better version of the story?

completely stupid af job design that could be patched in a week

I bet if they made the changes you suggested, other players would come to these forums and complain as well. They can't really win. "Please balance jobs SE" and "please don't homogenize" are sections of the playerbase at odds with eachother - sometimes even a player at odds with themselves.

Give em dps and then we can move on.

If you mean damage attacks, tbh, they have done that to the healers a decent amount.

Sage felt pretty varied attack-wise while leveling it.

• Dosis (attack) or Dyskrasia (AoE)
• Pneuma (attack), Psyche (attack), Phlegma (attack)
• Eukrasian Dosis (DoT) or Eukrasian Dyskrasia (AoE DoT)
• Toxikon (attack, even if you never shield, you can apply tank shield+party shield before a dungeon boss to get 2 procs)

Although White Mage can feel more bland if you ignore the GCD heals, it does have things that make it feel good to me personally:

• Glare (attack) or Holy (aoe)
• Dia (DoT)
• Assize (frequent AoE), Presence of Mind (GCD speed increase, feels really good to DPS with), Glare IV x3 (can only be used after using Presence of Mind)
• Afflatus Misery (used if it was healing intense enough to GCD heal)

Astrologian has long been in a good spot attacks-wise:

• Malefic (attack) or Gravity (aoe)
• Combust (dot)
• Earthly Star (exploding damage), Macrocosmos (attack), Lord of Crowns (attack), Divination (raid-wide damage buff), Oracle (attack used after Divination)
• Lightspeed (not a damage buff, but makes attacking feel different by turning you into a non-caster)
• Play 1 (damage buffs mini-game, look who is most optimal to give it to). To a lesser extent, Play 2 and Play 3 are still something to do

If anything, it's really Scholar that has the most boring damage:

• Broil (attack) or Art of War (aoe)
• Biolysis (dot)
• Aetherflow -> Energy Drain x3, Dissipation -> Energy Drain x3, Chain Strategem debuff, Baneful Impaction (executed after Chain Strategem)

The issue is that broil/bio is same thing other healers have. Most of its other damage is just "more energy drain" making it a bit like everything on WAR leads to just "more fell cleave". Chain Strategem doesn't "feel good", as like some sort of an attack. Which leaves Baneful Impaction, the first new real attack Scholar has ever had after only ever having them removed...

So if I say healers are just spam 1 button, I am bias as a Scholar, because honestly the other healers aren't quite as bad as that right now and feel a bit more varied in how they attack/buff over a 2 minute period.

[Katish]

-cut-

All healers basically feel the same...once you break down the composition. I dare anyone who says otherwise to just turn off your effects and play the game without effects. It sticks out like a sore thumb when you do, the effects are what trick your brain into thinking otherwise. It's disingenuous to bring up other actions when under 2mins you are only really pressing those once or twice (maybe three times depending on the skill)...2 mins mind you is a long time to have to wait to feel that ounce of difference. You'll feel this even more in savage which is the ironic thing, since they supposedly balance healers using high content as the reference (which I am not even sure they do, given the damage disparity). Also, healers make up more damage than you might think they do...it isn't small. In good play both healers combined can make up 20% of the boss's hp (which is quite large)...average play might see (10-15%) in combined healer damage [still significant]. Nothing validates the blandness that is the healer damage kit.

[Connor]

Or they could give them gcd buffs/debuffs to contribute without it having to be direct damage like (most) dps. Like for SCH/AST then WHM/SGE can stay dps healers. Remake the game for me YoshiP

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I want something like this:


I don't want garbage like this:


Even worse, this is true for all 4. What's the point of making 4 healers if all 4 plays all too similarly? What a waste of design space.

Enuff said.

[Havenchild]

Would it hurt anyone? Would it break th3 game? No. As a drk main and non healer player I welcome it. Square doesn't seem to realize or care how big the cracks are in this game from a dogshit ass story to completely stupid af job design that could be patched in a week....it's infuriating to your player base and we are f. Tired of this. I started in sb in 2018 and I've heard healers crying about the same things since. What's the hold up? Give em dps and then we can move on. Fix drk and we can move on. Like this is bullshit waiting for patch 9.xx to get shit like increased emnity. Tell me you don't care about your players without telling me you don't care about your players

It would hurt the raiding healer population in PF and directly contribute to further shortage as the expectancy to contribute increases as does the role responsibility. Saying the situation can be resolved in a week (lol), proves you have no understanding of game balance or how all these variables interchange in all the separate environments.

[AnnRam]

I want something like this:


I don't want garbage like this:


Enuff said.

Sadly our player base cried for years about removing clearing stance / dots because "anxiety issues"

Now Healers are OK but gets boring quick when the group doesn't get hit and you are stuck with dmg+dot.

[Ayan_Calvesse]

Sadly our player base cried for years about removing clearing stance / dots because "anxiety issues"

Now Healers are OK but gets boring quick when the group doesn't get hit and you are stuck with dmg+dot.

People seem to forget that some players vary in ability and for content to be created it needs to generally be engaged by a large portion of the population of game - its the reason we only get a small amount of ultimates because the reality is a large swath of the player base never touch it..

[Sensui]

People seem to forget that some players vary in ability and for content to be created it needs to generally be engaged by a large portion of the population of game - its the reason we only get a small amount of ultimates because the reality is a large swath of the player base never touch it..

Largely in my experience, if you don't "have the thing" you don't get invited to the table. So, I gave up that dream.

[Jeeqbit]

All healers basically feel the same...once you break down the composition.

I mean that's true in terms of heals. SCH and SGE mostly just have a direct copy+paste of eachothers' abilities for the most part, but with different names/icons.

But this thread is about damage and attacks. And I already explained why they feel different. AST is a buffer with various forms of attacks like Earthly Star, Lightspeed, and good old oGCDs; WHM has haste that feels good and SGE just has a number of different attack buttons than just Dosis. In contrast, Scholar genuinely does just spam Broil, maintain DoT and weave Energy Drain and that's really it.

the effects are what trick your brain into thinking otherwise

That's the game generally though. It's about glamour and animation. It would be nice if more abilities had a greater focus on strategic use rather than just being another attack. But even when they do, everyone just says "all jobs should have this" and that sort of ruins the idea of each job having its own strategic kit.

It's disingenuous to bring up other actions when under 2mins you are only really pressing those once or twice

I thought that at first, but having actually leveled WHM, I don't agree that it's disingenuous. Those 2 mins pass by fast. During that time other things happen, such as mechanics, and I find that the haste on WHM comes back up at just the right time for me personally. If the haste was there the whole time, then there wouldn't be the contrast or variety that it creates either.

healers make up more damage than you might think they do...it isn't small.

In raw numbers, maybe. But all the percents I've normally seen over the years, they look like the relative contribution isn't, like, above the other roles. And then the other roles will eat into the damage the healer was previously doing due to gear, making it matter less.

[Katish]

I mean that's true in terms of heals. SCH and SGE mostly just have a direct copy+paste of eachothers' abilities for the most part, but with different names/icons.

But this thread is about damage and attacks. And I already explained why they feel different. AST is a buffer with various forms of attacks like Earthly Star, Lightspeed, and good old oGCDs; WHM has haste that feels good and SGE just has a number of different attack buttons than just Dosis. In contrast, Scholar genuinely does just spam Broil, maintain DoT and weave Energy Drain and that's really it.
That's the game generally though. It's about glamour and animation. It would be nice if more abilities had a greater focus on strategic use rather than just being another attack. But even when they do, everyone just says "all jobs should have this" and that sort of ruins the idea of each job having its own strategic kit.
I thought that at first, but having actually leveled WHM, I don't agree that it's disingenuous. Those 2 mins pass by fast. During that time other things happen, such as mechanics, and I find that the haste on WHM comes back up at just the right time for me personally. If the haste was there the whole time, then there wouldn't be the contrast or variety that it creates either.
In raw numbers, maybe. But all the percents I've normally seen over the years, they look like the relative contribution isn't, like, above the other roles. And then the other roles will eat into the damage the healer was previously doing due to gear, making it matter less.

AST used to be my main but it was reduced from 5 draws to 2...that means over the course of two mins you are spamming even more malefic. It feels very much like whm now. Lightspeed isn't a damage skill, it's a movement one.
SCH has ED and can alleviate more if consuming the fairy, but again in 2 mins you still be mostly spamming broil.
SGE has a few more intricacies. But again under 2 mins you will be mostly spamming dosis.
WHM...I don't need to explain glare.

I play savage as all healers (save for SGE this expansion bc I have not leveled it yet [have done prior savages as SGE]) and mostly they all play the same where damage is concerned...the only one difference is when to time your damaging skills for the burst window...outside that, they are basically the same job with different effects. The information on percentages is based on savage, so mostly expect high end item level. (Some might levy a bit due to max ilvl but rare do you get a party filled with max ilvl unless you join a parsing party so averages tend to play out that way, but even then logs shows that under those parties good healers still get ~15-16% [either for skill, ilvl, or just basic RNG])