So... This is the "improved encounter design"?

[Valence]

Hasn't even cleared half of the tier
feels the need to criticize it
lmao

Do you know what game you're playing? Never expect a deviation from the norm.

I'm on the final line to clear (sabbaths) and I hold the exact same view as the OP. I'd rate those raids within the "pretty good category", but the very good category of the same old model and gimmicks. It's still chokefull of spread/pair/light parties mechanics, clones, chariot/dynamo, etc. The raid quality is good, but it's the model that's getting incredibly stale, and considering they promised new surprises and a willingness to work on making encounters creative again, then so far, I think they failed pretty hard, and i'll change my opinion the day they have actually something to show for it.

I dont know how many times people need to say it, but play a game for what it is NOW, not for what the dev says it will be in the future. If you're not enjoying it, why are you playing?

No need to get into strawmen either. Nobody here and especially not the OP has said that they have stopped enjoying the game.

The new encounter design includes the current savage fights, but there is some context:

The first tier is always intentionally easier to account for people adjusting to job changes, new rotations and new players. Then they make it tougher as people are used to the new expansion's gimmicks.

People asked for encounters to get less homogenized, like jobs, and the devs have promised that they were working this expansion on making the encounters more creative. So far, they're not a lot, that's what the OP has been saying. Nobody talked about difficulty. Nobody is contesting that the first tier is always easier. We weren't promised more difficult fights, we were promised more creative and unique fights.

But honestly when compared to another one of Yoshi's recent declaration on how "they're quite happy with their current model" right now, I think we're just expecting them to change the game model when they're not willing to. So I'm not holding my breath for anything actually pleasing our crowd here.

[Raikai]

I'm on the final line to clear (sabbaths) and I hold the exact same view as the OP. I'd rate those raids within the "pretty good category", but the very good category of the same old model and gimmicks. It's still chokefull of spread/pair/light parties mechanics, clones, chariot/dynamo, etc. The raid quality is good, but it's the model that's getting incredibly stale, and considering they promised new surprises and a willingness to work on making encounters creative again, then so far, I think they failed pretty hard, and i'll change my opinion the day they have actually something to show for it.



No need to get into strawmen either. Nobody here and especially not the OP has said that they have stopped enjoying the game.



People asked for encounters to get less homogenized, like jobs, and the devs have promised that they were working this expansion on making the encounters more creative. So far, they're not a lot, that's what the OP has been saying. Nobody talked about difficulty. Nobody is contesting that the first tier is always easier. We weren't promised more difficult fights, we were promised more creative and unique fights.

But honestly when compared to another one of Yoshi's recent declaration on how "they're quite happy with their current model" right now, I think we're just expecting them to change the game model when they're not willing to. So I'm not holding my breath for anything actually pleasing our crowd here.

Exactly. I see a lot of people here mentioning "difficulty" and it's defnitely not the point: they could've made the first tier easier while implementing a new model of encounter design.

I personally think it doesn't make a lot of sense to start the expansion in one note and suddenly near halfway through (when .2 comes) they completely change something as big as High End encounter design. That just seems off putting to say the least, because if it would scare people in the .1, why it wouldn't scare the same people if we get that in .2?

And I'm still having enjoyment in the game despite everything, but I'll probably take a break until 8.0 if the encounter design doesn't change much in 7.2. Again, not because I think the stuff we have now is poorly made, on the contrary, but I'd defnitely need a 'palate cleanser' from their formula.

[CaedemSanguis]

Exactly. I see a lot of people here mentioning "difficulty" and it's defnitely not the point: they could've made the first tier easier while implementing a new model of encounter design.

I personally think it doesn't make a lot of sense to start the expansion in one note and suddenly near halfway through (when .2 comes) they completely change something as big as High End encounter design. That just seems off putting to say the least, because if it would scare people in the .1, why it wouldn't scare the same people if we get that in .2?

And I'm still having enjoyment in the game despite everything, but I'll probably take a break until 8.0 if the encounter design doesn't change much in 7.2. Again, not because I think the stuff we have now is poorly made, on the contrary, but I'd defnitely need a 'palate cleanser' from their formula.

we're talking about difficulty because it's a risk to implement new mechanics they're not used to, it can either result as being too hard or too easy

and my guess is they didn't want the first tier to be harder or easier, so they didn't implement those new kind of mech

[Raikai]

we're talking about difficulty because it's a risk to implement new mechanics they're not used to, it can either result as being too hard or too easy

and my guess is they didn't want the first tier to be harder or easier, so they didn't implement those new kind of mech

But why it's a risk now, but not a risk in 7.2, since this is targeted just to a certain demographic of High End duty players? Especially when the 3 raid tiers in practice work as standalone entities, because you don't need to experience the first to get to the second or the third... I remember I started tackling Savage Fights more seriously in the second tier of Endwalker. I just feel that the best time to introduce change is always in the beginning of something.

[CaedemSanguis]

But why it's a risk now, but not a risk in 7.2, since this is targeted just to a certain demographic of High End duty players? Especially when the 3 raid tiers in practice work as standalone entities, because you don't need to experience the first to get to the second or the third... I remember I started tackling Savage Fights more seriously in the second tier of Endwalker. I just feel that the best time to introduce change is always in the beginning of something.

2nd-3rd tier/criterion savages/ultimates being too hard is more acceptable than a 1st tier being too hard

[Jeeqbit]

People asked for encounters to get less homogenized, like jobs, and the devs have promised that they were working this expansion on making the encounters more creative. So far, they're not a lot, that's what the OP has been saying. Nobody talked about difficulty. Nobody is contesting that the first tier is always easier. We weren't promised more difficult fights, we were promised more creative and unique fights.

I'm aware they were talking about making the fights more creative and exciting. What I was saying is that this did start with 7.0, because Yoshi-P said so and mentioned the expert dungeons and the raids as examples.

Whether people actually agree they are different or more exciting is up to them, but the expert dungeons do feel different than what they would have done in Endwalker with that ghost fight, the enemies that run at you constantly, the maze mechanic and there being an actual prospect of failure if you get sleepy against mechanics and don't constantly observe your surroundings.

I won't speak for savage but the normal modes seem different from what they've done for a while as well due to the smaller hitboxes and once again making it faster-paced. Could you imagine P11 or E11 having M2's heart mechanic and having to dodge all that stuff?

But for as exciting as all these are, perhaps they too become something you yawn at once you get used to them and they start to feel "easier". So I made the point for consideration that the first tier is easier in general and that they may step it up more when more "difficulty" is allowed later in the expansion.

[Rekh]

I'm aware they were talking about making the fights more creative and exciting. What I was saying is that this did start with 7.0, because Yoshi-P said so and mentioned the expert dungeons and the raids as examples.

Whether people actually agree they are different or more exciting is up to them, but the expert dungeons do feel different than what they would have done in Endwalker with that ghost fight, the enemies that run at you constantly, the maze mechanic and there being an actual prospect of failure if you get sleepy against mechanics and don't constantly observe your surroundings.

I won't speak for savage but the normal modes seem different from what they've done for a while as well due to the smaller hitboxes and once again making it faster-paced. Could you imagine P11 or E11 having M2's heart mechanic and having to dodge all that stuff?

But for as exciting as all these are, perhaps they too become something you yawn at once you get used to them and they start to feel "easier". So I made the point for consideration that the first tier is easier in general and that they may step it up more when more "difficulty" is allowed later in the expansion.

I doubt it. This level of difficulty matches heavensward and stormblood. FFXIV's long term issue's the lack of punishment and stack of debuffs not beign steep enough. Combine that with no rng and the fights could be done just based on sound while watching youtube. Fortunately I'm seeing actual rng now with Dawntrail content. It's been a huge improvement.

[CaedemSanguis]

I doubt it. This level of difficulty matches heavensward and stormblood.

?

Gordias and Midas were waaaaay harder than you're usual 2nd/3rd tier since 4.0


Im pretty confident that m5s-m8s and m9s-m12s will have a lot more "wow style" mechanics where you have to react/watch out (m2s alarm pheromones for instance)

[Jeeqbit]

This level of difficulty matches heavensward and stormblood.

I remember they mentioned pre-Stormblood as their goal for actual creativity, but with it being less annoying. Because the "different" mechanics in Heavensward were often just an annoyance. I do feel they have achieved this.

The compromise they made is they are now alright with you having to tomahawk spam if you can't be in melee range, which they were trying to avoid completely in Endwalker with the giant hitboxes.

FFXIV's long term issue's the lack of punishment

They do give vuln stacks so that subsequent mistakes can build up to being a problem. That combined with needing to watch your surroundings can make them more threatening. However, if they just kill you on the first mistake, then people say healers have no role or that there are body checks.

I do personally prefer mechanics to just kill, but that is often left to content with lots of rezzers such as hunts.

Combine that with no rng

Well there is specific RNG within the mechanics or specific patterns chosen at random, but the entire mechanic order being random from start to finish is likely something they will never do and I think if someone is expecting this they'll be disappointed. The closest I think we got to that was in SoS Extreme and ARR hunts where the entire array of casts is chosen at random.