Ideas for Healer Rework.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I've read this on the forum too, though I've not seen a source, if it's true then it's utterly insane yet also entirely believable given the state of healing at the moment.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202203/31256409.html

There you go. The infamous "healer got too good so a replacement was requested"-interview. Sometime in 6.1 AFAIR. And by 'too good', they mean "dabbled into EX trials".

[sharknado]

As opposed to right now where the healer is irrelevant and the tank is the only deciding role but also doesn’t care about the other roles because they are immortal anyway

How is that better balance

Right now if all of your party isn't a Moogle the healer is a glare bot. If someone, especially the tank has problems you are a heal bot. The game accepts a wide range of skills and knowledge of the game when you do content in DF - that's why people don't really care if someone isn't a god there. Due to this current trinity design is rather frozen and the game isn't sweaty.

If you make jobs more reliant on healers then suddenly you only want good healers or it will be a slog. At some threshold, people will start to care and naming/shaming will begin, kicks, past that people will move to PF and invite people they know or whose logs they can check... Welcome to WoW RIO/M+ score

The only avenue for healers to change is to move their DPS from constant spamming into short bursts and expand upon that with skill/reward button combos that look and feel cool while removing a row of old dead-end heals. And add more fun for dungeons and not just "balance around savage and ultimate".

[Supersnow845]

Right now if all of your party isn't a Moogle the healer is a glare bot. If someone, especially the tank has problems you are a heal bot. The game accepts a wide range of skills and knowledge of the game when you do content in DF - that's why people don't really care if someone isn't a god there. Due to this current trinity design is rather frozen and the game isn't sweaty.

If you make jobs more reliant on healers then suddenly you only want good healers or it will be a slog. At some threshold, people will start to care and naming/shaming will begin, kicks, past that people will move to PF and invite people they know or whose logs they can check... Welcome to WoW RIO/M+ score

The only avenue for healers to change is to move their DPS from constant spamming into short bursts and expand upon that with skill/reward button combos that look and feel cool while removing a row of old dead-end heals. And add more fun for dungeons and not just "balance around savage and ultimate".

Ah I see we are back to “if we do literally anything that might make healers not totally redundant in casual content the entire playerbase will rip themselves apart and it’ll be like mythic wow”, last week it was tanks will start start insta abandoning duties.

Like I genuinely have no idea why you think partially reverting the game to a trinity state before the two most recent expansions will cause the entire game to blow up. Healer weren’t redundant and tanks immortal gods for 4 expansions and somehow the game didn’t come crashing down, why are you so convinced of this apocalypse

[Alice_Rivers]

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202203/31256409.html

There you go. The infamous "healer got too good so a replacement was requested"-interview. Sometime in 6.1 AFAIR. And by 'too good', they mean "dabbled into EX trials".

Thanks, that really is mad.

[Karowolus]

Channeled casts are not why I play SGE, it's the mobility. The channeled spells would hurt the class as it stands.

It needs to be about the same mobility. What I would like is something complex to get right in a very limited time that has a huge reward. I would also love to convert blue heal charges to red dps charges.



No, Keep SGE the shield and amp them up, let the SCH do pure pet healing. That's far more in keeping with their job as a pet class.

Hi;

I'll adjust the wording, as I think this is a comment on Pentahumour. The 10s Beam would be something akin almost to their PVP LB, where it leaves a residual zone after the initial cast.

A lot of these ideas aren't really my own. They're my friend's who did a majority of putting all of this together. I just kinda sanitized it to see how the Forums reacted. I do think that either job could go the 'Main Shield Healer' route. Just depends on wholly on which job you would put the main strength on. I kinda like the idea of SGE having the quirky shields with different effects. Right now, a lot of the general sentiment among my friend group, and from what I've also seen other players has generally been that tanks have too much in regards to healing capability, again. Non-Healer clear of M4S on week 2...

[Karowolus]

SCH has been a heal amp shield healers for 4 times as long as SGE has existed as a class. Why don’t we give SGE an actual identity rather than SCH but worse then give all of SCH’s good ideas to SGE pretending like they were SGE’s from the start

Also OP not sure what your beef against SCH is considering you both put it’s a better shield healer than SCH in SGE’s description and SCH is just a terrible healer in general in SCH’s design, neither of those statements are true

I mean, overall the idea behind changing SGE was to make it have it's own identity with quirky shields with additional effects. Whilst frontloading it's healing to Kardia and the additional sources of Kardia healing.
This rework would make is to that you could play both classes together without stepping on eachother's toes because you accidentally overwrote the other's shields.

It took SE years to fix spell clipping in summons in general. And of the healers. Scholar is the one with the most Jank. Whilst a degree of Jank is OK. The fact that we have skills that don't interact with eachother that should needs to be corrected.

A lot of these ideas are concepts and are pretty much an early version. And are the result of a discussion. I just wanted to share it because I felt it was genuinely a good set of reworks that stuck to the job's lore. I do understand that people are probably going to see the bashing on scholar as 'You don't like Scholar'. As someone who plays scholar as their main healer. Right now? It has a janky feeling that I can't put my finger on and I don't feel like I'm incentivized to use the new tools given to me. The general ideas of each were intended to be:

• WHM: Regens, straightforward healing
• AST: Cool takes on straightforward healing and safety nets
• SGE: Damage-based healing
• SCH: Shield Healing and Rotational healing

I fully welcome criticism of these concepts. And these concepts are all very much having differing ideas tossed about.

[Supersnow845]

I mean, overall the idea behind changing SGE was to make it have it's own identity with quirky shields with additional effects. Whilst frontloading it's healing to Kardia and the additional sources of Kardia healing.
This rework would make is to that you could play both classes together without stepping on eachother's toes because you accidentally overwrote the other's shields.

It took SE years to fix spell clipping in summons in general. And of the healers. Scholar is the one with the most Jank. Whilst a degree of Jank is OK. The fact that we have skills that don't interact with eachother that should needs to be corrected.

A lot of these ideas are concepts and are pretty much an early version. And are the result of a discussion. I just wanted to share it because I felt it was genuinely a good set of reworks that stuck to the job's lore. I do understand that people are probably going to see the bashing on scholar as 'You don't like Scholar'. As someone who plays scholar as their main healer. Right now? It has a janky feeling that I can't put my finger on and I don't feel like I'm incentivized to use the new tools given to me. The general ideas of each were intended to be:

• WHM: Regens, straightforward healing
• AST: Cool takes on straightforward healing and safety nets
• SGE: Damage-based healing
• SCH: Shield Healing and Rotational healing

I fully welcome criticism of these concepts. And these concepts are all very much having differing ideas tossed about.

When you say jank what are you referring to?

Energy drain disincentivising healing?
Skills locking out other skills?
A lack of a cohesive “type” of healing?
Visual choices?

It’s interesting to me because in my opinion SCH’s dyssynergy is a form of synergy. The skills interact specifically because they don’t interact. You can’t just randomly pivot on a whim because you picked the wrong strategy, you need to commit to the healing choices you make and that leads to you planning them better. I think you should be able to freely pivot if you make a healing mistake, it’s an optimisation pathway modern healers sorely lack. Energy drain is an extension of this

Visual design not being cohesive for a while is a totally fair criticism though

[Connor]

The SCH changes I think would be better done if given to a new class. Too much of the changes wouldn’t make sense.

Hasn’t Aetherflow healing been the staple/core mechanic for Scholars? I mean, when you choose the SCH plate for portraits, you get a literal Aetherflow icon on the picture (not a DoT icon lol). I feel like completely removing that mechanic would be like taking Astrologian’s cards or Black Mage’s fire spells.

Where do the extra fairies come from when only two exist (except when they’re one)? Not only that but they all seem to do more or less the same thing besides two having some minor healing and two having dps. That’s not to mention (because I’ll be eaten by the SCH wolves), a ‘DPS’ fairy simply won’t work, because unfortunately it won’t ever be a choice. Maybe if you’re doing like, ultimate, but otherwise it’d be ‘use your dps fairy or suffer the consequences’, not ‘make a tactical decision based on the context’, so the healing ones may as well not exist.

You’ve also removed Scholar’s sole means of gcd aoe healing (Concitation) which I imagine would cause a range of problems (especially in lower levels). I don’t really understand why either. What’s the purpose of making Concitation an oGCD? Having it stack with Adloquium does sound hilariously broken though lol (imagine putting Concitation shields over a Deployed Adloquium).

Additionally why do we need to cannibalise skills from other healers? There isn’t any need for Scholar to have Lilybell or Haima when Seraph is effectually the same thing. Likewise is there a need for it to steal Convalescence from 2.0 tanks when Protraction does functionally the exact same thing (except also provides effective mitigation with max HP boost).

I don’t understand locking a damage combo behind Chain Stratagem either because then you have a damage combo with 2 minute cool-down. If they automatically replace it with no cool-down, couldn’t you potentially lock yourself out of using Chain if you used Seraph of War while it was off-cool-down?

Lastly frankly I’m already going to put on an international SCH watchlist for saying I don’t believe in dps fairies, but I don’t think Physick should be deleted. I’d rather see it do something that actually gave it some value, like having it restore more HP to a target with Adloquium to incentivise using it for triage (which doesn’t exists in ffxiv lol). Or making it increase the potency of Embrace on the target (lower healing potency as necessary)

Again I think a ‘new healer’ with this kind of design would be cool, but too much of it wouldn’t really make sense with how Scholar works now.

[sharknado]

Like I genuinely have no idea why you think partially reverting the game to a trinity state before the two most recent expansions will cause the entire game to blow up. Healer weren’t redundant and tanks immortal gods for 4 expansions and somehow the game didn’t come crashing down, why are you so convinced of this apocalypse

Well, it's their problem. I just bet we would have a screenshot thread of people going salty just because "now" there are problems with the content and before there weren't. We are already used to convenience.

And I'm not sure purely having more healing to do would make the gameplay fun. Like Cure I / II / III aren't Fell Cleave, Primal Rend, and Primal Ruination vibe-wise. Same with dot-111111-dot.

[Supersnow845]

Well, it's their problem. I just bet we would have a screenshot thread of people going salty just because "now" there are problems with the content and before there weren't. We are already used to convenience.

And I'm not sure purely having more healing to do would make the gameplay fun. Like Cure I / II / III aren't Fell Cleave, Primal Rend, and Primal Ruination vibe-wise. Same with dot-111111-dot.

Yeah instead we currently have threads about the tank holding the party hostage that’s soooooooo much better balance isn’t it. I love the party being so afraid to rely on me that instead we all have to rely on the benevolence of the tank if we die

And I genuinely say this in the nicest way possible, if your idea of healing is “let the tank do half my job for me so I can relax and not be stressed” you are exactly who they shouldn’t be designing jobs around. Healing is the core tenant of the healers. Why are you playing healers if you don’t think healing more than the paltry healing we currently do won’t make your experience better