Let's talk about Beastmaster

[Zyph]

Probably because BST was not designed well. It was designed around an idea the players never took to and thus the job was sentenced to several years of leveling on their own. Charm as it was in XI should never repeat itself, because then it gives way to the foolish fears Tanaka and Matsui had for pet classes.

My suggestion for BST would be to have a stable of permanent pets (these can be charmed and kept in stable afterwards) with abilities that require both BST and pet to be active. Pets should have their own stat scaling independent of how open world mobs scale, this way we don't run into the excuse the devs in XI used for BST.

I actually liked the way BST worked in XI, aside from the whole "aggro-after-charm" thing. I liked the idea of being able to go out in the wild and steal a beast for your own use, it required a good sense of situational awareness. Keeping track of ecosystems helped too.

To me, having a stable full of pets will mean that by level 50 everyone will be using the same pet because it's the best and blah blah blah. And that's something that I'd rather see avoided, I like having options and situational considerations.

Also the real reason that BST fell into obscurity was that for a while the BST's pet would count as the equivalent of a 7th player in an exp party as far as exp distribution went, bringing down everyone's overall exp. Also as a truly "advanced" job, many players didn't know what they were doing and essentially became gimp warriors by not managing their pets correctly.

[Duelle]

To me, having a stable full of pets will mean that by level 50 everyone will be using the same pet because it's the best and blah blah blah. And that's something that I'd rather see avoided, I like having options and situational considerations.

I understand this, but it's a matter of how you look at it. You can have types of pets be better for certain situations. Say, coeurls are good for X type of mobs. Dodos could be good for Y type of mob. Aldgoats are good for Z type of mob and so on.

Your alternative is your class being gimped because you're balanced around charmable mobs that are no different than the outworld mobs that are designed to maul you to pieces. Tanaka used to talk about having to be careful because of the fact part of BST's gameplay involved mobs with much higher stats than any player. This is also why the design eventually moved in favor of jug pets, as they were not the same as outdoor mobs. Again, I don't want anything that would facilitate the devs keeping a job weak the way they did with BST.

That being said, I also want to push for emphasis on abilities that require master and pet to cooperate in order to do damage or support or whatever. Tamer could have basic commands (though for balance reasons I would limit all pets to having one specific ability per type/family) while BST would be able to work in synch with their pet to contribute. BST being able to combo with their pets would also be a neat thing to see. Should bring good things if the job can actually fit into a party with greater ease, too.

[Keith_Dragoon]

To me, having a stable full of pets will mean that by level 50 everyone will be using the same pet because it's the best and blah blah blah. And that's something that I'd rather see avoided, I like having options and situational considerations.

Like BST does in XI with jug pets? every BST and their mother has a Nursery Nazuna, Dipper Yuly and GooeyGerrard the "big 3" BST pets in XI.

The stable Idea is from WoW and while there were "best" pets to have for hunters not every hunter had the same pets, they had the same species but in various colors, sizes and some even had special skills. It was alot more diverse then you make it sound.

[Zyph]

Like BST does in XI with jug pets? every BST and their mother has a Nursery Nazuna, Dipper Yuly and GooeyGerrard the "big 3" BST pets in XI.

The stable Idea is from WoW and while there were "best" pets to have for hunters not every hunter had the same pets, they had the same species but in various colors, sizes and some even had special skills. It was alot more diverse then you make it sound.

And then I look at things like Guild Wars where having a menagerie of pets meant that you could chose whatever pet you wanted based on physical appearance, but that rendered them entirely pointless. The focus with those was whatever was the most rare, but even then everyone had them.

I would however support an idea of jug pets/menagerie as long as pets have strengths/weaknesses, thus requiring more thought into which pet you used. Do I want a Dodo pet all the time? Not really, but say I'm going to go fight a lot of beetles (or a giant beetle boss o_o), a Dodo (theoretically) would be strong against beetles. But if I'm going to head to the Shiva boss fight, I wouldn't bring a Dodo because they're weak to Ice and would be destroyed, I'd bring something else.

That kind of strategy/consideration was another thing that made BST fun in XI. Bringing a tiger jug to a Yuhtunga party was crap because tigers were weak to mandies, etc.

And yes, while I think it's probably unlikely, if they upped the strength of mobs to make the game more cooperative/party-based, as well as updated the monster distribution to go with the new maps, then charming wild pets could indeed become useful again. That hope is, again, a bit of a longshot though.

[Keith_Dragoon]

And then I look at things like Guild Wars where having a menagerie of pets meant that you could chose whatever pet you wanted based on physical appearance, but that rendered them entirely pointless. The focus with those was whatever was the most rare, but even then everyone had them.

I would however support an idea of jug pets/menagerie as long as pets have strengths/weaknesses, thus requiring more thought into which pet you used. Do I want a Dodo pet all the time? Not really, but say I'm going to go fight a lot of beetles (or a giant beetle boss o_o), a Dodo (theoretically) would be strong against beetles. But if I'm going to head to the Shiva boss fight, I wouldn't bring a Dodo because they're weak to Ice and would be destroyed, I'd bring something else.

That kind of strategy/consideration was another thing that made BST fun in XI. Bringing a tiger jug to a Yuhtunga party was crap because tigers were weak to mandies, etc.

And yes, while I think it's probably unlikely, if they upped the strength of mobs to make the game more cooperative/party-based, as well as updated the monster distribution to go with the new maps, then charming wild pets could indeed become useful again. That hope is, again, a bit of a longshot though.

You can do all this with the stable system... what you are asking for is the ecosystem that SE had for XI which is not exclusive to jug pets and the like. With the stable system in WoW a hunter is able to dismiss and call another pet to better handle any given situation. combine that witha monster ecosystem and a Beastmaster can dismiss and call beast a Dodo to fight the beetle swarm.

[Duelle]

You can do all this with the stable system... what you are asking for is the ecosystem that SE had for XI which is not exclusive to jug pets and the like. With the stable system in WoW a hunter is able to dismiss and call another pet to better handle any given situation. combine that witha monster ecosystem and a Beastmaster can dismiss and call beast a Dodo to fight the beetle swarm.

Agreed. Prior to WotLK, pets were pretty much useless, as the hunter raid spec was Marksmanship and pets were squishy. WotLK is where each was given a situational advantage (yes, I used the word situational to refer to the fabled l0lezmodeWoW). Cats were considered pretty good DPS and could buff the group's AGI and STR with Roar of Courage. Wolves could buff the party with Furious Howl and were considered hardier because of their higher base armor and health. Corehounds had decent DPS and Ancient Hysteria (think Haste, but on steroids multiple times over). Spiders could stun and root enemies. And so on.

The reason I favor a stable system is also because I think jugs as a concept are pretty much BS. If you worry about the poor culinarians, I'd implement a food system for BST pets. Sure, you'll grumble about having to buy specific types of foods for each pet (because that aspidochelone likes mushrooms and not steak), but, well, balance. >.>;