We cannot achieve balance while DPS jobs have utilities

[Connor]

In short, the contradictions of such complaints are so obviously enough mere veils for simply "Keep gameplay little to null so that I can't be made to feel bad for feeling non-optimal in my casual content" that if the devs continue to pander to them, there honestly isn't much hope for the game

Personally I’d argue we’re dangerously close to that point already. Or, dangerously close to approaching it at the very least.

And I mean, realistically, is there even that many players so obsessed with some kind of absolute optimisation that the changes we keep getting are actually going to satisfy them?

Like taking the way that Viper skill because it might get in the way of optimising melee combo uptime. Though I suppose that leads into another question it brings up which is “where did this ‘feedback’ even come from?” Lol.

Personally I feel like if the devs said ‘would you rather have perfect balance, or more unique/interesting/etc job designs’, I feel like they’d be surprised with how many people would opt for the latter. Though maybe just personal bias because I’d say that’s ultimately going to be the most satisfying option. Naturally in practice it wouldn’t be so black and white (both can exist to an extent), but I think most players are more concerned with whether their job is ‘fun/interesting’ to them, rather than ‘is it going to be easy to optimise in savages’ lol (plus again, there’s nothing to say they couldn’t be both)

[Shurrikhan]

And I mean, realistically, is there even that many players so obsessed with some kind of absolute optimisation that the changes we keep getting are actually going to satisfy them?

I don't think that's ever been a source of complaints. The people who actually go for hyper-optimization usually enjoy when there is a lot there to hyper-optimize.

Rather, the ones being pandered to (with little reason the rest of us can fathom/stomach) seem to chiefly complain about simple skill gap / the extent reward differs with effective effort invested: I.e., "If I hit my ABCs and dodge mechanics, I should deal basically the same damage as you (...even if my engagement, considerations, etc., are only a tenth of yours)."

[Eraden]

Personally I’d argue we’re dangerously close to that point already. Or, dangerously close to approaching it at the very least.

And I mean, realistically, is there even that many players so obsessed with some kind of absolute optimisation that the changes we keep getting are actually going to satisfy them?

Like taking the way that Viper skill because it might get in the way of optimising melee combo uptime. Though I suppose that leads into another question it brings up which is “where did this ‘feedback’ even come from?” Lol.

Personally I feel like if the devs said ‘would you rather have perfect balance, or more unique/interesting/etc job designs’, I feel like they’d be surprised with how many people would opt for the latter. Though maybe just personal bias because I’d say that’s ultimately going to be the most satisfying option. Naturally in practice it wouldn’t be so black and white (both can exist to an extent), but I think most players are more concerned with whether their job is ‘fun/interesting’ to them, rather than ‘is it going to be easy to optimise in savages’ lol (plus again, there’s nothing to say they couldn’t be both)

Mao more concerned abouts some jobs being very unpopulars and much less played than other jobs. Is telling Mao that thems jobs not as funs as more popular jobs. Devs should be trying to find way to make unpopular jobs more funs without grindings thems down into simple things. Is does not necessarily mean more dps. Sometimes can be HOW dps is generateds that can make job more funs.

[LilyPendragon]

Mao more concerned abouts some jobs being very unpopulars and much less played than other jobs. Is telling Mao that thems jobs not as funs as more popular jobs. Devs should be trying to find way to make unpopular jobs more funs without grindings thems down into simple things. Is does not necessarily mean more dps. Sometimes can be HOW dps is generateds that can make job more funs.

People have fun with different things though. Even at its most fun, BLM was still pretty low on the player count. Compared to (imo) the least fun job in the game SMN getting a huge amount of players.

(Even this crappy form of BLM is still the most fun job for me btw)