On the Removal of Positionals

[W00by]

It's kind of an uphill battle to defend what little we have, but we have to keep trying. SE won't give us anything at all if they were removed.

Hundred percent agree, we just have to keep trying. It's just frustrating, when after I make a post about how positionals:

1. enhance job feel and gameplay

2. require thoughtful planning and engaging movement

3. enhance encounter design and mechanical nuance

4. can almost always be hit if played properly, even with less skilled other players

and 5. involve unique planning around True North and the like,

people still call them pointless. They just don't read what I say, so it becomes discouraging quickly. But I won't give up!

[StriderZessei]

I read what you're saying, W00by, I just respectfully-but-fundamentally disagree on each point.

I'm my opinion, positionals are easy, tedious busywork that add nothing positive to the game.

[W00by]

I read what you're saying, W00by, I just respectfully-but-fundamentally disagree on each point.

I'm my opinion, positionals are easy, tedious busywork that add nothing positive to the game.

Perhaps you have read what I said, but you haven't engaged with my argument. I've explained in detail why, in the content I play that I enjoy, positionals are far from tedious busywork. Can you explain how positionals remain tedious busy work in DT EX2 during mechanics such as Dawn of an Age 2, or Manifestation of Turmoil, when all positional resources must be carefully managed and players must delicately position themselves to hit all of them? That's super fun for players who like that kind of thing, not idle busywork.

The point is, I get that FOR YOU, positionals are tedious busywork. But for the players that enjoy optimizing them, they're incredibly engaging. And, considering you barely lose anything by not doing them, why should I lose something I like that players who dislike them aren't forced to engage with?

Everyone will have a different opinion on them, but a world in which they exist is one where those who dislike them can just ignore them -- but I can't "ignore" them being removed the way you can ignore them being there. That's why it's important for them to stay.

[Lorika]

Hundred percent agree, we just have to keep trying. It's just frustrating, when after I make a post about how positionals:

1. enhance job feel and gameplay

2. require thoughtful planning and engaging movement

3. enhance encounter design and mechanical nuance

4. can almost always be hit if played properly, even with less skilled other players

and 5. involve unique planning around True North and the like,

people still call them pointless. They just don't read what I say, so it becomes discouraging quickly. But I won't give up!

No to everything.
They add nothing at all....

You seem to think that you are a majority, which isn't the case. The majority hate FFXIV positional.

Also, if FFXIV postional was so damn good, dozen of MO would have them which... isn't the case at all.
On the majority of MMO postional are situational.... Mostly used by Rogue/Thief/Assassin llike class (Backstab while being cloaked) or, they have mostly CC attached to them.

FFXIV Positional are just plainly bad, useless and not fun at all.... Seriously, what the point of doing back and forth just for a measly 40 or 60 potency? Where is the fun in that? and especially since ALL the DPS have true North, a skill that cancel those positional (so it's clear that SE is aware how bad this gameplay mechanic is, and how annoyg it is)
If i want "action" on a MMO i will go play BDO.... But on a Tab Targeted MMO, positional always been rare and, like i said, were always tied to Rogue/Thief/Assassin like class or situational CC.

I never encountered discussion about positional, like the hundred we have on FFXIV, on any other MMO.... So i think you should start to wonder why.

[W00by]

No to everything.
They add nothing at all....

You seem to think that you are a majority, which isn't the case. The majority hate FFXIV positional.

Also, if FFXIV postional was so damn good, dozen of MO would have them which... isn't the case at all.
On the majority of MMO postional are situational.... Mostly used by Rogue/Thief/Assassin llike class (Backstab while being cloaked) or, they have mostly CC attached to them.

FFXIV Positional are just plainly bad, useless and not fun at all.... Seriously, what the point of doing back and forth just for a measly 40 or 60 potency? Where is the fun in that? and especially since ALL the DPS have true North, a skill that cancel those positional (so it's clear that SE is aware how bad this gameplay mechanic is, and how annoyg it is)
If i want "action" on a MMO i will go play BDO.... But on a Tab Targeted MMO, positional always been rare and, like i said, were always tied to Rogue/Thief/Assassin like class or situational CC.

I never encountered discussion about positional, like the hundred we have on FFXIV, on any other MMO.... So i think you should start to wonder why.

Would you care to explain why it's "no to everything"? If you look at my more recent posts in this thread, I've supplied substantial information about why I firmly believe in these statements.

In contrast, you have made a blanket "no" statement and provided a hollow argument about other games. First off, there are other games with positionals, but also ... FFXIV isn't every other game? I don't want FFXIV to be just like any other game, so does it really matter if it has a mechanic that every other game doesn't? After all, if you want to play a game without positionals, you can go play one of those other MMOs :^)

I don't think I'm in the majority across FFXIV. But I firmly believe we melee players enjoy positionals, and that most people who make takes like yours don't main melee, especially not at a high level -- which, no offense, is obviously the case for you as well.

[Lorika]

Would you care to explain why it's "no to everything"? If you look at my more recent posts in this thread, I've supplied substantial information about why I firmly believe in these statements.

In contrast, you have made a blanket "no" statement and provided a hollow argument about other games. First off, there are other games with positionals, but also ... FFXIV isn't every other game? I don't want FFXIV to be just like any other game, so does it really matter if it has a mechanic that every other game doesn't? After all, if you want to play a game without positionals, you can go play one of those other MMOs :^)

I don't think I'm in the majority across FFXIV. But I firmly believe we melee players enjoy positionals, and that most people who make takes like yours don't main melee, especially not at a high level -- which, no offense, is obviously the case for you as well.

Typical.

Ok i'll made it clear, since you are dismissing or avoiding on purpose my point... and calling it "hollow argument" (yeah right)

It's not a matter or like/dislike.... I say NO to a a loud minority asking to introduce/reintroduce a bad and poorly designed gameplay mechanics that no other MMO use (or like i said for situational purpose).

It's time you start to open you eyes on how crappy and useless FFXIV positional are.... They clearly were added in the first place to create a false feeling of "action" in a quite static MMO.

An like i said, if you want "action" go play BDO (or maybe GW2 if you want a strange hybrid between tab targeted and action with no positional ^^)

[W00by]

Typical.

Ok i'll made it clear, since you are dismissing or avoiding on purpose my point... and calling it "hollow argument" (yeah right)

It's not a matter or like/dislike.... I say NO to a a loud minority asking to introduce/reintroduce a bad and poorly designed gameplay mechanics that no other MMO use (or like i said for situational purpose).

It's time you start to open you eyes on how crappy and useless FFXIV positional are.... They clearly were added in the first place to create a false feeling of "action" in a quite static MMO.

An like i said, if you want "action" go play BDO (or maybe GW2 if you want a strange hybrid between tab targeted and action with no positional ^^)

Again, this argument is really hollow. You have no statistics to PROVE I'm in a loud minority (even as I am providing lots of statistics proving that the current positional-filled melees are really popular), and no proof that the vast majority want positionals removed. Unless you can poll the entire playerbase to prove me wrong, this argument will always be hollow.

You still have no in-game, evidence-based argument for why positionals create more frustration than fun. I encourage you to stop using the other games comparison because, again, other games are not FFXIV, therefore FFXIV does not have to be like every other game.

Good try though.