Normal Raids need dps check and enrage time

[Ramiee]

Ehhh maybe some raids or trials can have an pseudo enrage just to test out if players know their rotations, though maybe instead of a raid wide wipe it's more of a punishment for the player.

[MagnificentOxen]

A soft enrage sounds great. DPS need that kind of clear feedback considering the other rolls have it

[Aurelius2625]

The problem is, this would work just fine if there were enrages...it would make things fun and a challenge to overcome and feel great when you overcame the challenge. The issue is this playerbase is so coddled and white knighted that if you notice someone is truly just playing AWFULLY you CANNOT give ANY "unsolicited advice" in a TEAM GAME. I'm not talking like "nice guy behavior" like "you suck play better"...I'm talking like "Hey PLD, I noticed that you weren't really using Flight or Fight or Req, these do a lot of damage and help you contribute to the dps check, try to use them more often to help out"... NO you CANNOT say anything like this because it's "unsolicited advice". IN A TEAM GAME WHERE WE NEED TO HELP EACH OTHER OUT. So because of this, because I cannot help and there is no community spirit, people just silently leave. IN SITUATIONS WHERE IT CAN TOTALLY BE SAVED AND CLEARED.

This mentality of "any advice is a toxic assault on my honor" is strangling things from ever changing. In savage you are KICKED AND BLACKLISTED for being stubborn. People spread your name around if you are a routine trash can, because there are expectations to be met if you are truly awful. It's a small community and there are expectations and decorum.

In normal mode, there is no room for ANY advice or help even if it's like I said above, nothing remotely toxic just literally helping someone do more damage. THERE IS NO DPS METER IN THIS GAME. Dude, just literally give a DPS meter FOR JUST THE PERSON TO SEE, FOR THEMSELVES! No one else. No team dps meter. Just a dps meter for literally THAT player alone to see. They'll want to see why it isn't higher. They'll be curious how to make the number go up, and naturally, it will make them seek out to improve, if they have a functioning brain.

People naturally want to do good, and want to see numbers go up. Why on earth can there NOT be a PERSONAL dps meter? It won't be tracked or anything it will literally just be for that person alone, no fflogs, nothing. It BAFFLES my mind that STONE SKY SEA does NOT have a dps meter for it for that instance so people can see what their rotation looks like. Insane.

Unless this changes, we can't have dps checks in normal.

[AmiableApkallu]

I don't see DPS checks or hard enrages happening in Normal content.

I hate to break it to you, but Praetorium -- yes, Praetorium, of the MSQ roulette -- has a DPS check / hard enrage.

Eden's Verse: Refulgence also has a DPS check / hard enrage.

I've actually seen both. In Praetorium, the party will wipe if it doesn't kill the four adds in time. In Refulgence, it turns out two tanks and six dead party members can't quite break the ice in time.

SE is perfectly capable of adding a DPS check / hard enrage to normal content without making everyone scream, "tHiS iS tOo HaRd!?!?!2111!!"

[alfarini]

Yeah? Why not? Tanks have to deal with being told to pull more and use their mitigations or healers to do more DPS while keeping people alive, don't see why DPS should be getting a clear pass to use 3 buttons and be happy with it.

Ok if we did add an enrage to normal raid fights, now we have an issue where we can potentially get a party combo where the fight is not possible. Then what happens? All the DPS get yelled at and kicked, unlike a tank being told to pull wall to wall or use mits. It's not the same thing, not doing wall to wall is the tanks choice and it just takes a bit longer to do a dungeon, not using mits? Well I guess if he tank dies you lose some time and the dps has to tank for a little bit, but better than not being able to clear it.

I never said it's ok for a DPS to exclusively press only 3 buttons, don't project yourself onto me. Your "why not?" Would put the blame only on DPS as a whole. and given that game will not tell you who's doing good damage at all, then anyone who points out that damage is low from X or Y Person then they are breaking TOS by using damage meters.This brings toxicity into the normal raid scene, and it's not ok. If I wanted to be on a timer to complete a fight I'd do Extremes or savage. If you actually thought about the wider scope of the idea you would know your wrong.

[hydralus]

Ok if we did add an enrage to normal raid fights, now we have an issue where we can potentially get a party combo where the fight is not possible. Then what happens?
...
I never said it's ok for a DPS to exclusively press only 3 buttons

For your first point, you either kick them and get someone who can handle it, or you disband and try with a new group. I've had it happen with terrible tanks and healers.

As for never saying it's ok for a DPS to press 3 buttons, sure you did, by arguing it's not okay for there to be any sort of challenge for a DPS player to overcome. Indeed, nobody's going to die because a DPS isn't doing their job, and therein lies the issue. People can autoattack their way through the majority of the content. Also you can totally tell when someone is doing very poor damage by their ranking in the team list. Barring deaths (which itself is an issue, if someone is dying constantly while the rest of the team is fine), if you're placed 8th we know something's amiss.

Asides you greatly overestimate the level of DPS checks we're calling for here. Press more than your combo, that's all I'm asking. Not asking for 80th or even 70th percentile here. 50%, a passing grade. Surely you can manage that. Basically asking for someone with a pulse who isn't watching youtube on the side.

[alfarini]

For your first point, you either kick them and get someone who can handle it, or you disband and try with a new group. I've had it happen with terrible tanks and healers.

As for never saying it's ok for a DPS to press 3 buttons, sure you did, by arguing it's not okay for there to be any sort of challenge for a DPS player to overcome. Indeed, nobody's going to die because a DPS isn't doing their job, and therein lies the issue. People can autoattack their way through the majority of the content.

This why savage is there for if you want a harder challenge, not in normal. You really want to spend extra time waiting for a fill for a normal raid? Time to get off your high horse. I'd hate for the game to turn into the toxic hell scape that is wow dungeons.

And your clearly miss reading my post, I said I don't do 1/4 of my rotation as I usually would or should if I want to just chill. I mean I do it suboptimal, not that I don't do it at all.
EOD

[ViaDesperare]

The average player is awful, they'll struggle with an enrage timer. Didn't Titania have an enrage timer, she was already tough as is for the casual group. Even savage raiders are terrible, most expecting to be hard carried, so how would a casual player be able to clear Normal raids when savage raiders can barely clear EX? If you've done DT EX 2, you'll see people being dragged to the finish line of the fight because of how much babying they need. They provide barely any dps, parsing 0s, while just making everything harder for everyone else.

[koko-on-da-forumz]

And your clearly miss reading my post, I said I don't do 1/4 of my rotation as I usually would or should if I want to just chill. I mean I do it suboptimal, not that I don't do it at all.

I'm curious what you mean by this. The jobs are so on-rails there's not really an "optimally" or "suboptimally" for almost any of them. Like you refresh your healer dot at 6s instead of aiming for a 0s refresh? Are you just not hitting the GCD for some reason? If you know your job, you just press the buttons through muscle memory...

I'd have to try harder to make mistakes than do it correctly?

[alfarini]

I'm curious what you mean by this. The jobs are so on-rails there's not really an "optimally" or "suboptimally" for almost any of them. Like you refresh your healer dot at 6s instead of aiming for a 0s refresh? Are you just not hitting the GCD for some reason? If you know your job, you just press the buttons through muscle memory...

I'd have to try harder to make mistakes than do it correctly?

Single weaving and not double usually, on the rare Occasion I can triple weave when the stars aline. It still the "rotation" juts not as per the balance recommendations